Michael Fremer said :-

[User211]

P.S Virtually all of my vinyl pressings sound great, not just 20%!

Well that's a world first. Well done, LOL (Possibly patronising but in jest).

Let's agree to differ. I wasn't patronising you BTW. I know you're just going to stick to your guns no matter what. I know what you believe.

[Jimbo]

Oh I do! Which is why next time you are here, we will hear the Digital version of it.

£250 Digital setup Vs. £5k vinyl setup, in the same system.

BTW, im not treading on Vinyl. Jim, you know how much I love vinyl!

I know mate and I understand where your coming from.

[Bigman80]

I know mate and I understand where your coming from.

I know you do. We have discussed it at length haven't we lol.

Will we ever figure it out???

[Marco]

I think it has to acknowledged that vinyl is a flawed medium. It's flawed by the almost impossible amount of variables, rather than anything else.

Yup, but no-one's disputing that, certainly not me - just not flawed in the way Justin describes. *Everything* in hi-fi is flawed to some degree, especially speakers, where the sound eventually emits from, and which have more measured distortion than anything else, by an order of magnitude! So that kind of renders worrying about how 'accurate' vinyl (or anything else upstream) is as somewhat ridiculous!

IME, only if you are prepared to go 100% into vinyl replay, can you expect to match the SQ of digital.

I completely agree. That's why, as I've said before, there is very little disparity between the sound of my T/T and my CD player, when both are playing the same music (as I have umpteen albums of the same music on vinyl and CD, so comparisons are quick and easy). No-one said getting there though was easy, or cheap!

Marco.

[Marco]

Well that's a world first. Well done, LOL (Possibly patronising but in jest).

Let's agree to differ. I wasn't patronising you BTW. I know you're just going to stick to your guns no matter what. I know what you believe.

...to be TRUE, and which is true

I 'stick to my guns' because 35 years of experience tells me I'm right, not just to be stubborn or to try and win an argument. And why wouldn't the majority of my LPs sound great? I'm fussy about what I buy and have a great sounding T/T and system, so dude, it's kind of expected...

You haven't answered the point I made about vinyl rips. Care to have a go, or shall we just leave it here?

Marco.

[jandl100]

The speakers we use substantially filter and manipulate everything that is fed to them.
It's for that reason that ever since I got into this hobby nearly 50 years ago I've been a 'speakers first' type of hifi lover.
Amps come next, then source gear, especially with digital.

Open the speaker window on the music wider or clean the glass a little and things can come across very differently. And perhaps lead you to come to different conclusions about the rest of the gear in the system and the nature of what medium is 'best' for you.

[Jimbo]

The speakers we use substantially filter and manipulate everything that is fed to them.
It's for that reason that ever since I got into this hobby nearly 50 years ago I've been a 'speakers first' type of hifi lover.
Amps come next, then source gear, especially with digital.

Open the speaker window on the music wider or clean the glass a little and things can come across very differently. And perhaps lead you to come to different conclusions about the rest of the gear in the system and the nature of what medium is 'best' for you.

I tend to agree with you there.

[Audio Al]

I only switched back to vinyl after 25 years of digital because it sounded better. If digital gets its act together and delivers a more convincing audio experience I will switch back to digital. I can afford to do both well so its not based on any financial concern, in fact digital would be easy. Buy a Server and a great DAC, sign up to Tidal and Qubuz and I would have all the music I could ever wish for at my fingertips.

Fact is digital for me still has not got there yet, close but not enough to hold my attention and make me sit down and enjoy the musical performance.

I am certainly not bothered about any of the technical arguments because ultimately it is what I hear that makes the difference and vinyl for me still sounds better.

It is good that we have journalists out there who also believe this and have held their head above the parapet because for so many years the majority simply jumped on the digital bandwagon.

+1

[User211]

The speakers we use substantially filter and manipulate everything that is fed to them.
It's for that reason that ever since I got into this hobby nearly 50 years ago I've been a 'speakers first' type of hifi lover.
Amps come next, then source gear, especially with digital.

Open the speaker window on the music wider or clean the glass a little and things can come across very differently. And perhaps lead you to come to different conclusions about the rest of the gear in the system and the nature of what medium is 'best' for you.

Massive point Jerry.

Tannoise are particularly sympathetic to vinyl I find.

My Apogees? No. They tell you it ain't that great. And you can hear why. You can even see why. The bass panels show you the LF is all over the place. You can see the warps and ripples right in front of you.

[Marco]

The speakers we use substantially filter and manipulate everything that is fed to them.

Not to mention how they interact with the room, which is also kind of significant...

But yes, you're absolutely right, which is why fretting over 'flaws' upstream, in vinyl or otherwise, which in comparison are minor, is a little 'silly' to say the least!

I'd also argue that if you mainly listen to electronic music, which by its very nature isn't real, and manufactured, then it going to be difficult judging how 'accurate' the sound is that you're listening to, whether or not it's been recorded on a digital or analogue format.

Therefore, I'd contend that the only way to accurately judge the flaws of the vinyl medium is to use sounds that are natural and real [not electronic noises], and which through the years, our ears have become attuned to, and in turn developed an accurate perception of, such as the human voice.

Good acoustic recordings of such have always been the definitive arbiter for realism, when it comes to judging the sound produced by hi-fi systems, or any of their constituent components.

I won't get into the 'source first (or otherwise)' debate, as I have differing views from the majority here, although I'm not a staunch source-first guy, so we'll save that discussion for another day

Marco.