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Thread: Unstable Tracking Force Conundrum- a ghost in the machine ?

  1. #11
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: West Yorkshire

    Posts: 1,583
    I'm Stephen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Audio Al View Post
    What TFGuage are you using , I had all sorts of problems with this type
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/0-5g-LED-...18d8413f0ae269
    It is similar and I'm aware of the issues with cheap strain gauge balances which is why I double checked with the old fashioned but very reliable Shure SFG 2 and both read very very similar so am happy it's not the balance. Also, there is no problem with the other cartridge/headshell combos
    Always a little further

  2. #12
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 3,083
    I'm Adrian.

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    Steve

    Just a thought, what Turntable is the arm on, I have Jelco TK850M and it is a very stable arm and tracks very well. One thing I am wondering is even though yours if 9" with the Denon fitted how far back down the arm is the balance weight to get the arm balanced and then set the tracking weight? If it is the heaviest of the 3 cartridges you have, if your TT has a cover and you put it down when playing a record or after (having just set it up properly) is it possible for the cover to catch on the weight and then throw it out?

    The reason I ask is I cannot put my TT cover down when playing a record as th e10" arm over hangs at the rear and at about 3/4 across an LP the weight will come into contact with the cover.

    This might explain the issue.

    Cheers

    Adrian
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    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes


    Pro-Ject Signature 10 TT & arm, Benz Micro LP-S & Michel Cusis MC cartridge, Furutech AG-12-R4 High Performance Phono Cable, LFD MMC special phono stage, Rothwell MCX SUT, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi to Beresford Caiman SEG DAC, Sony 3d blu-Ray for CDs to Caiman SEG, ALLNIC T1500 MKII SET 300B amp, Tannoy Legacy Arden speakers and JBL L100 Century's , Chord Epic speaker leads, & signature links, the Eccose Conductor CA1 cd to pre, I think I am at audio nirvana, but don’t tell anyone

  3. #13
    Join Date: May 2012

    Location: Dagenham Essex

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    I'm I'mteachingmarcotheartofpishanto.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJSki2fly View Post
    Steve

    Just a thought, what Turntable is the arm on, I have Jelco TK850M and it is a very stable arm and tracks very well. One thing I am wondering is even though yours if 9" with the Denon fitted how far back down the arm is the balance weight to get the arm balanced and then set the tracking weight? If it is the heaviest of the 3 cartridges you have, if your TT has a cover and you put it down when playing a record or after (having just set it up properly) is it possible for the cover to catch on the weight and then throw it out?

    The reason I ask is I cannot put my TT cover down when playing a record as th e10" arm over hangs at the rear and at about 3/4 across an LP the weight will come into contact with the cover.

    This might explain the issue.

    Cheers

    Adrian
    Oooo , I like that theory , Top thinking Sir
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  4. #14
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: West Yorkshire

    Posts: 1,583
    I'm Stephen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJSki2fly View Post
    Steve

    Just a thought, what Turntable is the arm on, I have Jelco TK850M and it is a very stable arm and tracks very well. One thing I am wondering is even though yours if 9" with the Denon fitted how far back down the arm is the balance weight to get the arm balanced and then set the tracking weight? If it is the heaviest of the 3 cartridges you have, if your TT has a cover and you put it down when playing a record or after (having just set it up properly) is it possible for the cover to catch on the weight and then throw it out?

    The reason I ask is I cannot put my TT cover down when playing a record as th e10" arm over hangs at the rear and at about 3/4 across an LP the weight will come into contact with the cover.

    This might explain the issue.

    Cheers

    Adrian
    Adrian

    While the counterweight is at the very rear of the arm it is clear of the dust cover in its tracking arc. Also, I don't close the lid as the Brueil record weight is too tall.

    I do think though that the issue is likely related the counterweight being so far away from the arm pivot. Unfortunately, I am not aware of a heavier counterweight for this arm.

    Even though we have not yet reached a definitive reason for the problem I am sensing that the received expert opinion is that it is unlikely to be due to the cartridge suspension which supports Terence's view.

    Steve
    Always a little further

  5. #15
    Join Date: Apr 2011

    Location: London

    Posts: 3,719
    I'm Robert.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJSki2fly View Post
    Steve

    Just a thought, what Turntable is the arm on, I have Jelco TK850M and it is a very stable arm and tracks very well. One thing I am wondering is even though yours if 9" with the Denon fitted how far back down the arm is the balance weight to get the arm balanced and then set the tracking weight? If it is the heaviest of the 3 cartridges you have, if your TT has a cover and you put it down when playing a record or after (having just set it up properly) is it possible for the cover to catch on the weight and then throw it out?

    The reason I ask is I cannot put my TT cover down when playing a record as th e10" arm over hangs at the rear and at about 3/4 across an LP the weight will come into contact with the cover.

    This might explain the issue.

    Cheers

    Adrian

    Yeah,

    Have knocked mine out like this before - drives you nuts ! hence I ended up having a bespoke cover made in the end, at the time.
    My System:
    Amplification - Sansui AU-alpha 707 DR
    Turntable - Technics SP10 MK2, Technics EPA-250 Tonearm, Ortofon Cadenza Black moving coil cartridge with Fritz Gyger S re-tip, Panzerholz plinth,
    CDP - Pioneer PD-91
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  6. #16
    Join Date: Dec 2017

    Location: Lincolnshire

    Posts: 172
    I'm Martin.

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    Don't have an answer as such but surely it's the actual tonearm weight moving because if it wasn't, after a number of adjustments it'd be off the back of the arm.....

  7. #17
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: West Yorkshire

    Posts: 1,583
    I'm Stephen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scotty38 View Post
    Don't have an answer as such but surely it's the actual tonearm weight moving because if it wasn't, after a number of adjustments it'd be off the back of the arm.....
    Occam's razor answer - thank you

    I suspect you are correct.

    I need to find a heavier counterweight

    Steve
    Always a little further

  8. #18
    Join Date: Dec 2017

    Location: Lincolnshire

    Posts: 172
    I'm Martin.

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    Can you not set it up and mark the weight and arm in some manner then you'll see what is happening?

  9. #19
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: West Yorkshire

    Posts: 1,583
    I'm Stephen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scotty38 View Post
    Can you not set it up and mark the weight and arm in some manner then you'll see what is happening?
    I suppose the fact that I have to wind the counterweight back is an indication that your suggestion is correct.
    I am going to see if anyone can make me a heavier counterweight.
    Always a little further

  10. #20
    Join Date: Dec 2017

    Location: Lincolnshire

    Posts: 172
    I'm Martin.

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    Agreed but I had assumed you couldn't tell (no markings??) based on considering other options. Having said that how does a heavier weight fix the issue that the current one is moving as I don't see the correlation?

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