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Thread: Unstable Tracking Force Conundrum- a ghost in the machine ?

  1. #1
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: West Yorkshire

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    I'm Stephen.

    Default Unstable Tracking Force Conundrum- a ghost in the machine ?

    So here’s a puzzle I’ve been unable to solve - maybe someone can shed some light?

    A few days ago while using my Paradox Pulse Denon DL103-R I noted the bass was overly boomy and distorting on certain tracks - all other frequencies were fine. On checking the VTF it was 3.5g instead of the 2.5g I had set a couple of weeks prior. Putting it down to personal stupidity I reset to 2.5 and the bass was back to normal. Anyway, same thing happened again the following day- VTF measured 3.5g. Weird! To cut a long story short I reset and rechecked after an hour and it was again 3.5. I’ve repeated this on numerous occasions and the VTF drifts up by about 1g every time.

    If I swap in either my AT 33PTG/II or Goldbug Brier the VTF stays stable - no drift.

    I have recalibrated my digital balance and also used the Shure SFG 2 (very similar readings) in case the balance had gone off.

    The TT shelf/TT/platter are all perfectly level.

    The virtually new Jelco TK850s is correctly setup and arm/headshell set perpendicular using a spirit bubble and horizontal site rule.

    The Paradox Pulse is in a new Jelco HS-30 with all fixings tight.

    So I think I’ve eliminated all external factors and come to the conclusion it must be an issue with the cartridge suspension despite it being 2 years old and with only about 100 hours. It’s never been mishandled. I’ve discussed this with Terence at Paradox Pulse and he is adamant it can’t be the cartridge and even if it were broken it wouldn’t give these symptoms. He suggested gently depressing the cantilever with a finger - it did return to its default position on release and there was some resistance but I have no idea how it should feel. I can’t believe such a test can exclude a duff suspension.

    I suggested sending it back to Terence for checking but he is sceptical and it’s also a long way to send it if it’s not the problem.

    Anyway, long story but I’m out of ideas now. Grateful for any suggestions.

    Steve



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  2. #2
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

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    I'm Geoff.

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    The tracking downforce can't be altered by the cartridge, I'd assume the tonearm is responsible. Maybe the internal wiring is applying unwanted torque, although it would have to be pretty stiff wire to generate a 1g difference.
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

  3. #3
    Join Date: Jul 2010

    Location: Cheltenham

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    I'm Charlie.

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    Steve
    Have you tried the 103 in a different tonearm?
    Charlie
    R2R: Studer A820 1/2 inch 2 track; Otari MTR-12 1/4 inch 2 track; Sony APR 5003; Sony APR 5002; Studer A807/II. Vinyl: Platine Verdier Allaerts MC1B/Schroeder Reference & Model 2 Decca C4E/Hadcock 228 TRON Seven Reference phono. Keith Monks MkII RCM Other analogue source: Nakamichi Dragon with ANT4066 mods. Amplification: TRON Meteor preamp TRON Voyager 20B SET power. Speakers: Avantgarde Duo. Digital: computing at last with Prism Sound Lyra 2 A2D converter

  4. #4
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    I'm Stephen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    The tracking downforce can't be altered by the cartridge, I'd assume the tonearm is responsible. Maybe the internal wiring is applying unwanted torque, although it would have to be pretty stiff wire to generate a 1g difference.
    If that were the case I’d expect to have the same problem with the other cartridges and they are both perfect. Totally stable. I even checked again this morning - after 24 hours the VTF on the Brier is exactly as I set it so I can’t fathom how it could be the tonearm unless it’s because the mass of cartridge and headshell (29g) is too much for the arm. I can get it to balance but the counterweight is virtually at the end of the arm. I did enquire from Hugo (Ammonite Acoustics) if there was a heavier counterweight available but apparently not.



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  5. #5
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: West Yorkshire

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    I'm Stephen.

    Default Unstable Tracking Force Conundrum- a ghost in the machine ?

    Quote Originally Posted by topoxforddoc View Post
    Steve
    Have you tried the 103 in a different tonearm?
    Charlie
    I haven’t Charlie. The only other arm I have is an SME 3009 II with fixed headshell - there’s no way it would take the mass of the Paradox.

    Walpurgis’s post has got me thinking that maybe this cartridge/headshell is to heavy for the arm with standard counterweight and the knife edge bearing is being “distorted”




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  6. #6
    Join Date: Feb 2013

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    no kids who might have had a twiddle? suspension could be collapsing but im not so sure that would alter vtf much. something loose on arm
    Regards,
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    “You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”

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  7. #7
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    Quote Originally Posted by struth View Post
    no kids who might have had a twiddle? suspension could be collapsing but im not so sure that would alter vtf much. something loose on arm
    Nope defo no kids or vagrant twiddles.
    Poltergeist?


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  8. #8
    Audio Al is offline Pishanto Specialist & Super-Daftee
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    I'm Allen.

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    What TFGuage are you using , I had all sorts of problems with this type
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/0-5g-LED-...18d8413f0ae269
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  9. #9
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

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    I'm Grant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by worrasf View Post
    Nope defo no kids or vagrant twiddles.
    Poltergeist?


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    duffer gauge?

    no that wouldnt account for sound.. comes back to arm
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    FIIO K7 BT, M11 PLUS, BTR7, KA5 - OPPO BDP-103D - PANASONIC UB450 - PANASONIC 4K ULTRA HD TV - PIXEL 6 - AVANTREE LR BLUETOOTH - 2* X600 SOUNDCORE - HEADPHONES INCLUDE, FIIO, NURAPHONES', FOCAL, OPPO, BOSE, CAMBRIDGE, BOWER & WILKINS, DEVIALET, MARSHALL, SONY, MITCHELL & JOHNSTON - 2*ZBOOK'S- MERCURY BD ROM, ROON, QOBUZ, TIDAL, PLEX, CYBERLINK, JRIVER - MULTI HDD'S -

    Oh my god! There's nothing wrong with the bidet is there?

    “Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test. It is the glory of Lincoln that, having almost absolute power, he never abused it, except on the side of mercy".

    “You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”

    "You don't have free will. You have the appearance of free will.”

    “There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!”


    ***SMILE, BE HAPPY***

  10. #10
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    I'm Stephen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by struth View Post
    duffer gauge?

    no that wouldnt account for sound.. comes back to arm
    Checked with both digital balance and Shure SFG 2
    Always a little further

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