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Thread: War shite (moved from Blank Canvas)

  1. #11
    Join Date: Mar 2016

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    My point was originally to show the truth of Adrians statement - "A bad tool I can think of is an Atom or Hydrogen Bomb, not much use really apart from killing several million people in one hit and leaving the area it hits radioactive for many years, but I am sure there are some out there that will argue it has its good uses.'" I then stated that it seems a majority of people take the view that the use of the atom bomb on Japan in WWII was entirely justified. Several posters then confirm this in the usual fashion using quasi military jargon completely forgetting we are talking about the lives of millions of civilians, who else killed civilians on such an industrial scale? Totalitarian regimes like Russia and Nazi Germany. Japan was also a totalitarian regime, but I never think the civilians of any country should bear responsibility for the actions of their governments. Japan could be seen as the beginning of Americas role as world policeman, Vietnam, the Middle East, countless lives lost through heavy bombing campaigns. Japans foolish bombing of Pearl Harbour cost a few thousand American - mostly soldiers - lives, the death rate of American military personnel to Vietnamese military/civilian must be something like at least 1/10. It seems America can just bomb away with impunity and we're all supposed to look away. Also once again, may'be it depends on what historians you read, but Japan were ready to surrender and probably would have done so. What need was there for America to storm their island? A ridiculous notion! What threat did Japan pose to America? The country was on its knees after the U.S. bombing of Tokyo in march 1945 which was even more deadly than Hiroshima or Nagasaki in terms of immediate casualties! I wonder how many U.S. civilians were killed during WW2?
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  2. #12
    Join Date: Feb 2013

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    I'm Grant.

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    us had over 400k deaths. we had about same, slightly more tbh if you add in blitz casualties. russia had 24 mil deathes, most civilian. japan had 2mil military deaths.. and about 500k+ in civilians.
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    Grant .... ؠ

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
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  3. #13
    Join Date: Mar 2016

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    Quote Originally Posted by struth View Post
    us had over 400k deaths. we had about same, slightly more tbh if you add in blitz casualties. russia had 24 mil deathes, most civilian. japan had 2mil military deaths.. and about 500k+ in civilians.
    Exactly, Japan around half a million civilian deaths all due to American bombing, how many American civilians killed during the whole of WW2? 12,000. So again what threat was Japan to America!
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  4. #14
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeandvan View Post
    ! What threat did Japan pose to America? The country was on its knees after the U.S. bombing of Tokyo in march 1945 which was even more deadly than Hiroshima or Nagasaki in terms of immediate casualties! I wonder how many U.S. civilians were killed during WW2?
    Pretty much all the 400,000 US servicemen who were killed had been civilians prior to Pearl Harbour. They were then drafted to fight the Germans and Japanese with no choice in the matter.

    The thinking in the U.S at the time was that if the entire nation of Japan was sunk into the sea with 100% casualties no-one would have cared.

    Part of the problem is that 80 years of peace has made us soft and we now judge the actions of our predecessors not only with the comfort of hindsight but with a badly mistaken sense of superior morality.

    No-one is saying these are good things to have happened. But I would suggest that they were, in the context of the time, justifiable.
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  5. #15
    Join Date: Feb 2013

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    The Japanese had to be seen by everyone, and especially the Japanese to be totally crushed. Their system of militarian govt had to be banned so it never happened again. It never has.
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    OPPO BDP-103D - JBE SERIES 3/B&O SP1/PROJECT PHONOBOX DS2 USB - QUAD VENA 2 - IFI PURIFIER 2/TWIN PRO MONOBLOCK POWER AMPLIFIERS - LEAF HD BLUETOOTH - OPPO PM-3 PLANAR, SONY H900 & NURAPHONE HEADPHONES - ZBOOK/ IFI SILENCER/WIN10 PRO/AUDIRVANA & JRIVER - SMSL M6 DAC & IFI SILENCER - RPI 3+, DIGIONE HAT/VOLUMIO2 - EDINGDALE MK1 SPEAKERS - CABLE INC CHORD, MOGAMI, SUPRA & WIREWORLD

    **Men are not punished for their sins, but by them**Don't be such a big girl's blouse!**
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  6. #16
    Join Date: Feb 2013

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeandvan View Post
    Exactly, Japan around half a million civilian deaths all due to American bombing, how many American civilians killed during the whole of WW2? 12,000. So again what threat was Japan to America!
    I think what is more telling is the 2 mil+ military deaths.... they prefered to die than surrender.. that was their psychology and why what was done was done.
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    OPPO BDP-103D - JBE SERIES 3/B&O SP1/PROJECT PHONOBOX DS2 USB - QUAD VENA 2 - IFI PURIFIER 2/TWIN PRO MONOBLOCK POWER AMPLIFIERS - LEAF HD BLUETOOTH - OPPO PM-3 PLANAR, SONY H900 & NURAPHONE HEADPHONES - ZBOOK/ IFI SILENCER/WIN10 PRO/AUDIRVANA & JRIVER - SMSL M6 DAC & IFI SILENCER - RPI 3+, DIGIONE HAT/VOLUMIO2 - EDINGDALE MK1 SPEAKERS - CABLE INC CHORD, MOGAMI, SUPRA & WIREWORLD

    **Men are not punished for their sins, but by them**Don't be such a big girl's blouse!**
    ***SMILE, BE HAPPY***

  7. #17
    Join Date: Mar 2016

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Pretty much all the 400,000 US servicemen who were killed had been civilians prior to Pearl Harbour. They were then drafted to fight the Germans and Japanese with no choice in the matter.

    The thinking in the U.S at the time was that if the entire nation of Japan was sunk into the sea with 100% casualties no-one would have cared.

    Part of the problem is that 80 years of peace has made us soft and we now judge the actions of our predecessors not only with the comfort of hindsight but with a badly mistaken sense of superior morality.

    No-one is saying these are good things to have happened. But I would suggest that they were, in the context of the time, justifiable.
    I'm not too familiar with the rules of war, but a soldier is a soldier and a civilian a civilian. One is not supposed to kill civilians, and once again what threat was Japan to the U.S. at that time, what justified the killing of so many Japanese civilians? I suppose you think Vietnam was a good idea as well.
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  8. #18
    Join Date: Feb 2013

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    the Japanese during 37/45 period murdered well over 6 million Chinese, Koreans, Malaysians, Indonesians, Filipinos and Indochinese, among others, including Western prisoners of war..some rate it at 10m.
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    OPPO BDP-103D - JBE SERIES 3/B&O SP1/PROJECT PHONOBOX DS2 USB - QUAD VENA 2 - IFI PURIFIER 2/TWIN PRO MONOBLOCK POWER AMPLIFIERS - LEAF HD BLUETOOTH - OPPO PM-3 PLANAR, SONY H900 & NURAPHONE HEADPHONES - ZBOOK/ IFI SILENCER/WIN10 PRO/AUDIRVANA & JRIVER - SMSL M6 DAC & IFI SILENCER - RPI 3+, DIGIONE HAT/VOLUMIO2 - EDINGDALE MK1 SPEAKERS - CABLE INC CHORD, MOGAMI, SUPRA & WIREWORLD

    **Men are not punished for their sins, but by them**Don't be such a big girl's blouse!**
    ***SMILE, BE HAPPY***

  9. #19
    Join Date: Mar 2016

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    Quote Originally Posted by struth View Post
    the Japanese during 37/45 period murdered well over 6 million Chinese, Koreans, Malaysians, Indonesians, Filipinos and Indochinese, among others, including Western prisoners of war..some rate it at 10m.
    As I said before, I wouldn't hold civilians responsible for their governments actions. It is well documented that Japan was on its knees in '45, the U.S major triple bombing campaigns of 1945 were to show the world who was gonna be post war world leader.
    Current system. NAS Interspace, Jelco 750, /Nagaoka MP 200/Graham Slee Era V. CDP - Mission PCM 7000. Amps - Quad 909/306/Croft micro 25. Chario Syntar 100 Tower. QED XT40 speaker cable/Straight wire interconnects.

  10. #20
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Pretty much all the 400,000 US servicemen who were killed had been civilians prior to Pearl Harbour. They were then drafted to fight the Germans and Japanese with no choice in the matter.

    The thinking in the U.S at the time was that if the entire nation of Japan was sunk into the sea with 100% casualties no-one would have cared.

    Part of the problem is that 80 years of peace has made us soft and we now judge the actions of our predecessors not only with the comfort of hindsight but with a badly mistaken sense of superior morality.

    No-one is saying these are good things to have happened. But I would suggest that they were, in the context of the time, justifiable.
    An astute observation, Martin, with which I'd agree. The very fact that it took the Japanese hierarchy a week (?) to procrastinate after the first bomb would indicate that the American assumption of greater loss of life from prolonging the war holds water. The (brainwashed) nationalistic psyche of the Japanese nation at that time rather reinforces that premise.

    I remember buying a super duper portable Japanese FM radio in 1960/61 after saving hard; clever and innovative little people just one and a half decades after the holocaust. My wife's parents only knew Japanese education and governance during their earlier lives and few Taiwanese had a bad word for their conquerors during that period, unlike, as I gather, the Koreans. Over half a century, they were relatively benevolent in that island, I'm told. The 'invasion' of their countryman Cash My Cheque in '49 really did ruffle feathers though; strange world !

    Does this push the thread deflection envelope too far, I wonder ? It does mention both woman and hifi, after all !

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