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Thread: War shite (moved from Blank Canvas)

  1. #11
    Join Date: Mar 2016

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    I'm Mike.

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    My point was originally to show the truth of Adrians statement - "A bad tool I can think of is an Atom or Hydrogen Bomb, not much use really apart from killing several million people in one hit and leaving the area it hits radioactive for many years, but I am sure there are some out there that will argue it has its good uses.'" I then stated that it seems a majority of people take the view that the use of the atom bomb on Japan in WWII was entirely justified. Several posters then confirm this in the usual fashion using quasi military jargon completely forgetting we are talking about the lives of millions of civilians, who else killed civilians on such an industrial scale? Totalitarian regimes like Russia and Nazi Germany. Japan was also a totalitarian regime, but I never think the civilians of any country should bear responsibility for the actions of their governments. Japan could be seen as the beginning of Americas role as world policeman, Vietnam, the Middle East, countless lives lost through heavy bombing campaigns. Japans foolish bombing of Pearl Harbour cost a few thousand American - mostly soldiers - lives, the death rate of American military personnel to Vietnamese military/civilian must be something like at least 1/10. It seems America can just bomb away with impunity and we're all supposed to look away. Also once again, may'be it depends on what historians you read, but Japan were ready to surrender and probably would have done so. What need was there for America to storm their island? A ridiculous notion! What threat did Japan pose to America? The country was on its knees after the U.S. bombing of Tokyo in march 1945 which was even more deadly than Hiroshima or Nagasaki in terms of immediate casualties! I wonder how many U.S. civilians were killed during WW2?
    Current system 1210 GR. CDP - Meridian G08. Amp -Sugden A21I - Sig. Wharfedale Lintons.

  2. #12
    Join Date: Feb 2013

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    I'm Grant.

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    us had over 400k deaths. we had about same, slightly more tbh if you add in blitz casualties. russia had 24 mil deathes, most civilian. japan had 2mil military deaths.. and about 500k+ in civilians.
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    FIIO K7 BT, M11 PLUS, BTR7, KA5 - OPPO BDP-103D - PANASONIC UB450 - PANASONIC 4K ULTRA HD TV - PIXEL 6 - AVANTREE LR BLUETOOTH - 2* X600 SOUNDCORE - HEADPHONES INCLUDE, FIIO, NURAPHONES', FOCAL, OPPO, BOSE, CAMBRIDGE, BOWER & WILKINS, DEVIALET, MARSHALL, SONY, MITCHELL & JOHNSTON - 2*ZBOOK'S- MERCURY BD ROM, ROON, QOBUZ, TIDAL, PLEX, CYBERLINK, JRIVER - MULTI HDD'S -

    Oh my god! There's nothing wrong with the bidet is there?

    “Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test. It is the glory of Lincoln that, having almost absolute power, he never abused it, except on the side of mercy".

    “You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”

    "You don't have free will. You have the appearance of free will.”

    “There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!”


    ***SMILE, BE HAPPY***

  3. #13
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Brighton, UK.

    Posts: 3,072
    I'm Mike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by struth View Post
    us had over 400k deaths. we had about same, slightly more tbh if you add in blitz casualties. russia had 24 mil deathes, most civilian. japan had 2mil military deaths.. and about 500k+ in civilians.
    Exactly, Japan around half a million civilian deaths all due to American bombing, how many American civilians killed during the whole of WW2? 12,000. So again what threat was Japan to America!
    Current system 1210 GR. CDP - Meridian G08. Amp -Sugden A21I - Sig. Wharfedale Lintons.

  4. #14
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeandvan View Post
    ! What threat did Japan pose to America? The country was on its knees after the U.S. bombing of Tokyo in march 1945 which was even more deadly than Hiroshima or Nagasaki in terms of immediate casualties! I wonder how many U.S. civilians were killed during WW2?
    Pretty much all the 400,000 US servicemen who were killed had been civilians prior to Pearl Harbour. They were then drafted to fight the Germans and Japanese with no choice in the matter.

    The thinking in the U.S at the time was that if the entire nation of Japan was sunk into the sea with 100% casualties no-one would have cared.

    Part of the problem is that 80 years of peace has made us soft and we now judge the actions of our predecessors not only with the comfort of hindsight but with a badly mistaken sense of superior morality.

    No-one is saying these are good things to have happened. But I would suggest that they were, in the context of the time, justifiable.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  5. #15
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 99,005
    I'm Grant.

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    The Japanese had to be seen by everyone, and especially the Japanese to be totally crushed. Their system of militarian govt had to be banned so it never happened again. It never has.
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    FIIO K7 BT, M11 PLUS, BTR7, KA5 - OPPO BDP-103D - PANASONIC UB450 - PANASONIC 4K ULTRA HD TV - PIXEL 6 - AVANTREE LR BLUETOOTH - 2* X600 SOUNDCORE - HEADPHONES INCLUDE, FIIO, NURAPHONES', FOCAL, OPPO, BOSE, CAMBRIDGE, BOWER & WILKINS, DEVIALET, MARSHALL, SONY, MITCHELL & JOHNSTON - 2*ZBOOK'S- MERCURY BD ROM, ROON, QOBUZ, TIDAL, PLEX, CYBERLINK, JRIVER - MULTI HDD'S -

    Oh my god! There's nothing wrong with the bidet is there?

    “Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test. It is the glory of Lincoln that, having almost absolute power, he never abused it, except on the side of mercy".

    “You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”

    "You don't have free will. You have the appearance of free will.”

    “There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!”


    ***SMILE, BE HAPPY***

  6. #16
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 99,005
    I'm Grant.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeandvan View Post
    Exactly, Japan around half a million civilian deaths all due to American bombing, how many American civilians killed during the whole of WW2? 12,000. So again what threat was Japan to America!
    I think what is more telling is the 2 mil+ military deaths.... they prefered to die than surrender.. that was their psychology and why what was done was done.
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    FIIO K7 BT, M11 PLUS, BTR7, KA5 - OPPO BDP-103D - PANASONIC UB450 - PANASONIC 4K ULTRA HD TV - PIXEL 6 - AVANTREE LR BLUETOOTH - 2* X600 SOUNDCORE - HEADPHONES INCLUDE, FIIO, NURAPHONES', FOCAL, OPPO, BOSE, CAMBRIDGE, BOWER & WILKINS, DEVIALET, MARSHALL, SONY, MITCHELL & JOHNSTON - 2*ZBOOK'S- MERCURY BD ROM, ROON, QOBUZ, TIDAL, PLEX, CYBERLINK, JRIVER - MULTI HDD'S -

    Oh my god! There's nothing wrong with the bidet is there?

    “Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test. It is the glory of Lincoln that, having almost absolute power, he never abused it, except on the side of mercy".

    “You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”

    "You don't have free will. You have the appearance of free will.”

    “There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!”


    ***SMILE, BE HAPPY***

  7. #17
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Brighton, UK.

    Posts: 3,072
    I'm Mike.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Pretty much all the 400,000 US servicemen who were killed had been civilians prior to Pearl Harbour. They were then drafted to fight the Germans and Japanese with no choice in the matter.

    The thinking in the U.S at the time was that if the entire nation of Japan was sunk into the sea with 100% casualties no-one would have cared.

    Part of the problem is that 80 years of peace has made us soft and we now judge the actions of our predecessors not only with the comfort of hindsight but with a badly mistaken sense of superior morality.

    No-one is saying these are good things to have happened. But I would suggest that they were, in the context of the time, justifiable.
    I'm not too familiar with the rules of war, but a soldier is a soldier and a civilian a civilian. One is not supposed to kill civilians, and once again what threat was Japan to the U.S. at that time, what justified the killing of so many Japanese civilians? I suppose you think Vietnam was a good idea as well.
    Current system 1210 GR. CDP - Meridian G08. Amp -Sugden A21I - Sig. Wharfedale Lintons.

  8. #18
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 99,005
    I'm Grant.

    Default

    the Japanese during 37/45 period murdered well over 6 million Chinese, Koreans, Malaysians, Indonesians, Filipinos and Indochinese, among others, including Western prisoners of war..some rate it at 10m.
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    FIIO K7 BT, M11 PLUS, BTR7, KA5 - OPPO BDP-103D - PANASONIC UB450 - PANASONIC 4K ULTRA HD TV - PIXEL 6 - AVANTREE LR BLUETOOTH - 2* X600 SOUNDCORE - HEADPHONES INCLUDE, FIIO, NURAPHONES', FOCAL, OPPO, BOSE, CAMBRIDGE, BOWER & WILKINS, DEVIALET, MARSHALL, SONY, MITCHELL & JOHNSTON - 2*ZBOOK'S- MERCURY BD ROM, ROON, QOBUZ, TIDAL, PLEX, CYBERLINK, JRIVER - MULTI HDD'S -

    Oh my god! There's nothing wrong with the bidet is there?

    “Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test. It is the glory of Lincoln that, having almost absolute power, he never abused it, except on the side of mercy".

    “You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”

    "You don't have free will. You have the appearance of free will.”

    “There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!”


    ***SMILE, BE HAPPY***

  9. #19
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Brighton, UK.

    Posts: 3,072
    I'm Mike.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by struth View Post
    the Japanese during 37/45 period murdered well over 6 million Chinese, Koreans, Malaysians, Indonesians, Filipinos and Indochinese, among others, including Western prisoners of war..some rate it at 10m.
    As I said before, I wouldn't hold civilians responsible for their governments actions. It is well documented that Japan was on its knees in '45, the U.S major triple bombing campaigns of 1945 were to show the world who was gonna be post war world leader.
    Current system 1210 GR. CDP - Meridian G08. Amp -Sugden A21I - Sig. Wharfedale Lintons.

  10. #20
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Norwich

    Posts: 1,064
    I'm Mike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Pretty much all the 400,000 US servicemen who were killed had been civilians prior to Pearl Harbour. They were then drafted to fight the Germans and Japanese with no choice in the matter.

    The thinking in the U.S at the time was that if the entire nation of Japan was sunk into the sea with 100% casualties no-one would have cared.

    Part of the problem is that 80 years of peace has made us soft and we now judge the actions of our predecessors not only with the comfort of hindsight but with a badly mistaken sense of superior morality.

    No-one is saying these are good things to have happened. But I would suggest that they were, in the context of the time, justifiable.
    An astute observation, Martin, with which I'd agree. The very fact that it took the Japanese hierarchy a week (?) to procrastinate after the first bomb would indicate that the American assumption of greater loss of life from prolonging the war holds water. The (brainwashed) nationalistic psyche of the Japanese nation at that time rather reinforces that premise.

    I remember buying a super duper portable Japanese FM radio in 1960/61 after saving hard; clever and innovative little people just one and a half decades after the holocaust. My wife's parents only knew Japanese education and governance during their earlier lives and few Taiwanese had a bad word for their conquerors during that period, unlike, as I gather, the Koreans. Over half a century, they were relatively benevolent in that island, I'm told. The 'invasion' of their countryman Cash My Cheque in '49 really did ruffle feathers though; strange world !

    Does this push the thread deflection envelope too far, I wonder ? It does mention both woman and hifi, after all !

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