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Thread: speaker connections

  1. #41
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 2,729
    I'm Adrian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeandvan View Post
    Yeh they were a bit of an impulse buy. Its difficult to get an idea of how components sound from reviews, which isn't helpful! As they are physically larger than the Charios I thought they would have a bigger more exciting sound stage, but exciting they ain't. Playing some John Martyn now and they're ok, but I need more of an all round speaker. I'll leave em in for a while anyway, they were £300 so not expensive, I think they'd be good for people with more pedestrian tastes in music.
    Mike it will not be the Quad 909, and I had some Reference 3.2's and also auditioned Model 2's as well and neither would I describe as laid back. However I did know that they can be affected tonally by the type of cable used with them. I used a Monitor Power 4mm silver cable (silvered copper) supplied by Guidlford Hifi where I got them from, a pair of 5m Bi-wires 20 years ago were £320, so now about 2 to 3 times that. I did try them with some pure copper and I noticed then that they had a more relaxed feel to them, so it may be as simple as speaker and cable matching.

    The other thing I noticed is your sound may benefit form slightly toeing in each speaker a little about 1/2" each, this should give you better focus, depth and soundstage. If when in your listening position you ears are above the tweeter then adjust the feet/spike so that the speakers tilt slightly back so the tweeters are aiming towards your heard, do it the other way if you head is naturally below them.

    The other aspect to consider is in your room your speaker are firing down it and they look about 6-8 feet apart, which is fine, this will mean the optimum listening position is so that you are 6-8 feet away from each as in an equilateral triangle, or you could try 6-8 feet times 1.2 away. This will give you the natural sweet spot. If you are sitting further way then thing get tricky. From my experience you then need to nearly double the distance away form the speakers and a little less toe in, you will need to experiment to find the best spot depending on your room. If in your current listening position you are virtually back against the wall then you are likely to be getting low-mid frequency enhancement and this will greatly affect the overall sound and may make it sound a bit dead. If that is your only listening spot then hanging heavy fabrics in the corners to stop reflections if the best option. You can experiment with old blankets or duvets, before you go mad and buy stuff. I think you will be surprised at how much it can affect to sound.

    Lastly someone mentioned the inner bass drivers may not be working properly if the foam/rubber has failed. Find some bass heavy music and put it on not too loud, and then listen to each speaker with your ear near the port, if the speaker surrounds have failed you are likely to hear distortion. Also check no one has left acoustic foams down the ports, this has caught me out and not so long ago.

    I hope this may help.

    Cheers

    Adrian
    [FONT="Arial"]
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes


    Voyd the Voyd (slighty modded)JELCO TK850M(10"), Benz Micro LP-S & Michel Cusis MC cartridge, Furutech AG-12-R4 High Performance Phono Cable, LFD MMC special phono stage, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi to Beresford Caiman SEG DAC, Sony 3d blu-Ray for CDs to Caiman SEG, ALLNIC T1500 MKII SET 300B amp, Tannoy Legacy Arden speakers and JBL L100 Century's , Chord Epic speaker leads, & signature links, the Eccose Conductor CA1 cd to pre, I think I am approaching my audio nirvana, but donít tell anyone

  2. #42
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Brighton, UK.

    Posts: 1,040
    I'm Mike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigman80 View Post


    I do t know why you think Gary would "mean rip off the plugs" lol.

    The reason (recently explained to me) for fitting the cables to the LF and putting the jumpers to the HF, is that bass drivers have the furthest distance to travel so usually draw more power. It's better to directly connect the LF to the amp for this reason.
    I see!
    Current system. NAS Interspace, Jelco 750, /Nagaoka MP 200/Graham Slee Era V. CDP - Mission PCM 7000. Amps - Quad 909/306/Croft micro 25. Chario Syntar 100 Tower. QED XT40 speaker cable/Straight wire interconnects.

  3. #43
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: Much Wenlock

    Posts: 1,048
    I'm Gary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigman80 View Post


    I do t know why you think Gary would "mean rip off the plugs" lol.

    The reason (recently explained to me) for fitting the cables to the LF and putting the jumpers to the HF, is that bass drivers have the furthest distance to travel so usually draw more power. It's better to directly connect the LF to the amp for this reason.
    Perhaps I should have been more explicit, assumption is poor on my part.

    Gary
    It is easier to seek forgiveness than to ask permission

    Rules are meant for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men

  4. #44
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Brighton, UK.

    Posts: 1,040
    I'm Mike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJSki2fly View Post
    Mike it will not be the Quad 909, and I had some Reference 3.2's and also auditioned Model 2's as well and neither would I describe as laid back. However I did know that they can be affected tonally by the type of cable used with them. I used a Monitor Power 4mm silver cable (silvered copper) supplied by Guidlford Hifi where I got them from, a pair of 5m Bi-wires 20 years ago were £320, so now about 2 to 3 times that. I did try them with some pure copper and I noticed then that they had a more relaxed feel to them, so it may be as simple as speaker and cable matching.

    The other thing I noticed is your sound may benefit form slightly toeing in each speaker a little about 1/2" each, this should give you better focus, depth and soundstage. If when in your listening position you ears are above the tweeter then adjust the feet/spike so that the speakers tilt slightly back so the tweeters are aiming towards your heard, do it the other way if you head is naturally below them.

    The other aspect to consider is in your room your speaker are firing down it and they look about 6-8 feet apart, which is fine, this will mean the optimum listening position is so that you are 6-8 feet away from each as in an equilateral triangle, or you could try 6-8 feet times 1.2 away. This will give you the natural sweet spot. If you are sitting further way then thing get tricky. From my experience you then need to nearly double the distance away form the speakers and a little less toe in, you will need to experiment to find the best spot depending on your room. If in your current listening position you are virtually back against the wall then you are likely to be getting low-mid frequency enhancement and this will greatly affect the overall sound and may make it sound a bit dead. If that is your only listening spot then hanging heavy fabrics in the corners to stop reflections if the best option. You can experiment with old blankets or duvets, before you go mad and buy stuff. I think you will be surprised at how much it can affect to sound.

    Lastly someone mentioned the inner bass drivers may not be working properly if the foam/rubber has failed. Find some bass heavy music and put it on not too loud, and then listen to each speaker with your ear near the port, if the speaker surrounds have failed you are likely to hear distortion. Also check no one has left acoustic foams down the ports, this has caught me out and not so long ago.

    I hope this may help.

    Cheers

    Adrian
    Hi Adrian, Its all sounding better now for whatever reason, playing some David Sylvian and its a fair bit better than the Charios, more depth, better soundstage, timbre etc. Played some UK garage earlier as you said to play something bass heavy, that certainly is! It was all fine, not surprisingly these are quite bass shy speakers, what with the drivers being inside the speaker, for my room I think these speakers were a good choice for this reason, there certainly is'nt bass boom now. I haven;t given them my trademark 'bunch of kittens scratching away at a gutair' Kinks/stones/ 60s rock treatment yet, no doubt they won't up to much, is any high end equipment good for that sound? I did toe them in a bit this morning actually, that might have helped things. I'm certainly looking forward to playing some more music with these beasties, only tried a tiny part of my collection as yet, Jazz trumpets will be another challenge I'm sure!
    Last edited by Mikeandvan; 09-10-2019 at 11:44.
    Current system. NAS Interspace, Jelco 750, /Nagaoka MP 200/Graham Slee Era V. CDP - Mission PCM 7000. Amps - Quad 909/306/Croft micro 25. Chario Syntar 100 Tower. QED XT40 speaker cable/Straight wire interconnects.

  5. #45
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 2,729
    I'm Adrian.

    Default

    Thatís great, sometimes it can take a few days to get accustomed to a sonically different price of kit before deciding itís an improvement or not.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    [FONT="Arial"]
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes


    Voyd the Voyd (slighty modded)JELCO TK850M(10"), Benz Micro LP-S & Michel Cusis MC cartridge, Furutech AG-12-R4 High Performance Phono Cable, LFD MMC special phono stage, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi to Beresford Caiman SEG DAC, Sony 3d blu-Ray for CDs to Caiman SEG, ALLNIC T1500 MKII SET 300B amp, Tannoy Legacy Arden speakers and JBL L100 Century's , Chord Epic speaker leads, & signature links, the Eccose Conductor CA1 cd to pre, I think I am approaching my audio nirvana, but donít tell anyone

  6. #46
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Brighton, UK.

    Posts: 1,040
    I'm Mike.

    Default

    So a few weeks with my new speakers now, not sure they passed the dreaded Kinks/Stones test, nothing seems to! But with other music they are wonderful, I've never heard music expressed so realistically. I'm now wondering what I have to do to get more! The Quad is a powerful amp, so I'm guessing at the moment I'm room limited, the bass response is I think restricted by my room, could be wrong. Playing some S. Wonder and Al green now, fantastic, of course I did get that new mains regenerator recently, so that's helping things too, my mains here is definitely dodgy as I have blown an amp or two here, something that's never happened before, light bulbs also blow now and then. Will plug the Charios back in soon to see for sure, but it seems these Kefs are my first foray into real high end speakers. In the long run though I will need something that better expresses my 60s rock vinyl, whether its changing my TT, amp or whatever, but really enjoying my system now more than ever.
    Current system. NAS Interspace, Jelco 750, /Nagaoka MP 200/Graham Slee Era V. CDP - Mission PCM 7000. Amps - Quad 909/306/Croft micro 25. Chario Syntar 100 Tower. QED XT40 speaker cable/Straight wire interconnects.

  7. #47
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 2,729
    I'm Adrian.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeandvan View Post
    So a few weeks with my new speakers now, not sure they passed the dreaded Kinks/Stones test, nothing seems to! But with other music they are wonderful, I've never heard music expressed so realistically. I'm now wondering what I have to do to get more! The Quad is a powerful amp, so I'm guessing at the moment I'm room limited, the bass response is I think restricted by my room, could be wrong. Playing some S. Wonder and Al green now, fantastic, of course I did get that new mains regenerator recently, so that's helping things too, my mains here is definitely dodgy as I have blown an amp or two here, something that's never happened before, light bulbs also blow now and then. Will plug the Charios back in soon to see for sure, but it seems these Kefs are my first foray into real high end speakers. In the long run though I will need something that better expresses my 60s rock vinyl, whether its changing my TT, amp or whatever, but really enjoying my system now more than ever.
    Tell me what the dreaded Kinks/Stones test is and I will have a listen on mine and then let you know what you need to get, no seriously though I would be interested to know and have a listen on my set up.

    I am pleased that you are happier with how it is sounding now. But it seems that you are feeling something is lacking when listening to 60's type music, exactly what do you fell is wrong or not quite right. Would I be right in thinking this would be the low-end from bass and drums? If it is then this is not an easy thing to achieve, having gone through the following speakers over the past 3.5 years I know too well.

    Initially a pair of Dali Ikon 6's, good speakers very detailed and clean, but when the bottom end was pushed they become messy. Followed by Wilson Benecsh ARC's, a high end pair of monitors really, with downward facing ports, now these are very good, but need to be driven, they do produce controlled and detailed bass but a little dry sounding, very unforgiving on a bad sound source. Then a pair of Impulse H2's, sounded great, very musical and super soundstage, down side - very big boxes not SWMBO friendly, mid-range slight drop at around 350hz(I think). Then from a friend, at the same time as the H2's, a pair of Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grande SE's, now these produced a beautiful overall sound and are very natural and musical, downside twin ported to rear and placement is critical, need to be at least 3' from rear wall, or bass is too re-enforced. The H2's went and I did some other upgrades. Then out of the blue I was given a 70's pair of JBL L100 Century's, now these really do produce bass, and sound very good across the board, for a speaker that is nearly 50 years old amazing. The JBL's led me into thinking a little differently and this resulted in me buying a pair of secondhand Tannoy Legacy Ardens, very similar to the JBL's in sound but more clarity and musicality, but bigger cabinets, when I say that I can listen to either pair and be happy.

    By the way all the above speakers were driven with either Renaissance 300B mono blocks or my current ALLNIC T1500 mk2 300B amp, both sounding very similar to each other.

    I know it is a way to come but you are always welcome to come to me, especially if you are down this way, you can always bring your Quad and listen to it with the Ardens and JBL's. you should bring your Kinks/Stones tracks to see if they do the trick or not. At least then you would know if either would fit the ticket.

    Cheers

    Adrian
    [FONT="Arial"]
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes


    Voyd the Voyd (slighty modded)JELCO TK850M(10"), Benz Micro LP-S & Michel Cusis MC cartridge, Furutech AG-12-R4 High Performance Phono Cable, LFD MMC special phono stage, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi to Beresford Caiman SEG DAC, Sony 3d blu-Ray for CDs to Caiman SEG, ALLNIC T1500 MKII SET 300B amp, Tannoy Legacy Arden speakers and JBL L100 Century's , Chord Epic speaker leads, & signature links, the Eccose Conductor CA1 cd to pre, I think I am approaching my audio nirvana, but donít tell anyone

  8. #48
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Brighton, UK.

    Posts: 1,040
    I'm Mike.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AJSki2fly View Post
    Tell me what the dreaded Kinks/Stones test is and I will have a listen on mine and then let you know what you need to get, no seriously though I would be interested to know and have a listen on my set up.

    I am pleased that you are happier with how it is sounding now. But it seems that you are feeling something is lacking when listening to 60's type music, exactly what do you fell is wrong or not quite right. Would I be right in thinking this would be the low-end from bass and drums? If it is then this is not an easy thing to achieve, having gone through the following speakers over the past 3.5 years I know too well.

    Initially a pair of Dali Ikon 6's, good speakers very detailed and clean, but when the bottom end was pushed they become messy. Followed by Wilson Benecsh ARC's, a high end pair of monitors really, with downward facing ports, now these are very good, but need to be driven, they do produce controlled and detailed bass but a little dry sounding, very unforgiving on a bad sound source. Then a pair of Impulse H2's, sounded great, very musical and super soundstage, down side - very big boxes not SWMBO friendly, mid-range slight drop at around 350hz(I think). Then from a friend, at the same time as the H2's, a pair of Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grande SE's, now these produced a beautiful overall sound and are very natural and musical, downside twin ported to rear and placement is critical, need to be at least 3' from rear wall, or bass is too re-enforced. The H2's went and I did some other upgrades. Then out of the blue I was given a 70's pair of JBL L100 Century's, now these really do produce bass, and sound very good across the board, for a speaker that is nearly 50 years old amazing. The JBL's led me into thinking a little differently and this resulted in me buying a pair of secondhand Tannoy Legacy Ardens, very similar to the JBL's in sound but more clarity and musicality, but bigger cabinets, when I say that I can listen to either pair and be happy.

    By the way all the above speakers were driven with either Renaissance 300B mono blocks or my current ALLNIC T1500 mk2 300B amp, both sounding very similar to each other.

    I know it is a way to come but you are always welcome to come to me, especially if you are down this way, you can always bring your Quad and listen to it with the Ardens and JBL's. you should bring your Kinks/Stones tracks to see if they do the trick or not. At least then you would know if either would fit the ticket.

    Cheers

    Adrian
    Hi Adrian, thanks for the advice. I'm probably not that up on hifi jargon to describe the sound I'm getting from these speakers and what exactly is missing from the sound, of course it could be my sources, amps etc, but changing from the Charios to the Kefs have produced a general overall improvement as detailed above, I will switch the Charios back to appreciate the difference better. The Stones/Kinks test is to play either of those bands output from the 60s or early 70s, I have used the Stones Exile on main street (1st track - 'rocks off')and Sticky fingers as test records, scratchy guitar type stuff, and to see whether it boogies or not, for me the sound isn't lifelike enough, almost too small, or inorganic, and still not quite enough punch. I was thinking of trying another tonearm on my NA Interspace or trying a suspended TT. I think what the sound is really lacking on my Stones test record is rhythm and punch. Mind you I want those things but without the sound being too hard edged. I think there is also some fluidity missing, that's why I think my TT may be at fault. Curious how so many seem to end up with ancient Tannoys, looking inside those things its just a cabinet and a bit of wadding, speaker technology over the past 50 years seems to mean nothing!
    Current system. NAS Interspace, Jelco 750, /Nagaoka MP 200/Graham Slee Era V. CDP - Mission PCM 7000. Amps - Quad 909/306/Croft micro 25. Chario Syntar 100 Tower. QED XT40 speaker cable/Straight wire interconnects.

  9. #49
    Join Date: Jun 2015

    Location: London/Durham

    Posts: 3,174
    I'm Lawrence.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeandvan View Post
    Curious how so many seem to end up with ancient Tannoys, looking inside those things its just a cabinet and a bit of wadding, speaker technology over the past 50 years seems to mean nothing!
    To be fair there's a rather well designed and engineered dual concentric driver in there too

    Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk

  10. #50
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 2,729
    I'm Adrian.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeandvan View Post
    Hi Adrian, thanks for the advice. I'm probably not that up on hifi jargon to describe the sound I'm getting from these speakers and what exactly is missing from the sound, of course it could be my sources, amps etc, but changing from the Charios to the Kefs have produced a general overall improvement as detailed above, I will switch the Charios back to appreciate the difference better. The Stones/Kinks test is to play either of those bands output from the 60s or early 70s, I have used the Stones Exile on main street (1st track - 'rocks off')and Sticky fingers as test records, scratchy guitar type stuff, and to see whether it boogies or not, for me the sound isn't lifelike enough, almost too small, or inorganic, and still not quite enough punch. I was thinking of trying another tonearm on my NA Interspace or trying a suspended TT. I think what the sound is really lacking on my Stones test record is rhythm and punch. Mind you I want those things but without the sound being too hard edged. I think there is also some fluidity missing, that's why I think my TT may be at fault. Curious how so many seem to end up with ancient Tannoys, looking inside those things its just a cabinet and a bit of wadding, speaker technology over the past 50 years seems to mean nothing!
    Well actually I am a late convert to Tannoys, it was initiated through two avenues, firstly my best friend purchased at a very reduced price a pair of Tannoy Kensingtonís, when I herd them I was rather surprised just how good they are. As you say a old style design. So as I mentioned earlier when I realised how many others supported then and similarly designs in followed my instincts and took the plunge. I as you may guess very pleased with the result.

    If you are tempted to investigate Tannoys then do consider the smaller ones for your room, they all have a similar sound signature as I understand it.

    My offer for you to come and have a listen is always there.

    Cheers

    Adrian
    [FONT="Arial"]
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes


    Voyd the Voyd (slighty modded)JELCO TK850M(10"), Benz Micro LP-S & Michel Cusis MC cartridge, Furutech AG-12-R4 High Performance Phono Cable, LFD MMC special phono stage, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi to Beresford Caiman SEG DAC, Sony 3d blu-Ray for CDs to Caiman SEG, ALLNIC T1500 MKII SET 300B amp, Tannoy Legacy Arden speakers and JBL L100 Century's , Chord Epic speaker leads, & signature links, the Eccose Conductor CA1 cd to pre, I think I am approaching my audio nirvana, but donít tell anyone

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