!! AOS insomniacs club !!

[dave2010]

Thanks for your kind words Marco, I am and have been moving to the place you describe. I have been signed of sick for the past 9 months due to the angina issues, and the GP has been totally supportive of me. During that time my job has changed by 50%, with no consultation or advisory on its impact on me or ability to return to work, and they are supposedly no other work fit. So I have been side lined, which is fine, as long as they deal with it properly.

Adrian and Marco

Some good points - for example long term sleep deprivation not good - usually correlates with poor health and reduced life expectancy. Retiring - yes - can be a good option, but a lot depends on how viable it is. Relocating/downsizing - we can't talk. We relocated, but actually our new house is bigger than our previous one. This has enormous advantages in that we can store more of the things we have - so big speakers and musical instruments should be less of a problem - but getting that kind of advantage is I think unusual.

Relocating can be very stressful in itself, and doesn't necessarily bring benefits. Downsizing/relocating may bring financial benefits - but these need to be considered carefully. If you like the area you live in, and have friends and family there, and downsizing would be feasible and release capital, then think about that.

Weather also may be a significant factor - though affects people differently. I probably wouldn't advise anyone living in the very south of England to move to the far north of the UK without considering how the weather would affect them. What may be now extreme heat and sun could be swapped for a lot less sun and a significantly colder experience. The mid band - round where Marco lives is probably a fairly sweet spot.

The most capital release is probably going to be for people in and around London, moving to another more distant area. Sometimes it can work - but for other people it may not be a good move. Besides friends and family, there are other factors - health care in the area - do you get on with your GP and are the hospitals good?

If current work is difficult is there other work which can be done - for example using on-line working, which might now be more acceptable than it was a year ago? If someone has specific skills, then there are opportunities to generate income that way - and I don't mean by the sort of get rich quick adverts you see both on-line and in low end newspapers.

If work with the current employer is difficult, maybe try to negotiate a phased exit, rather that just go for a complete break. The employer might be happier with that, but would have to accept that you could take on other outside work. Note also that my observations from other people suggest that taking on "half time" work, for 50% of the pay isn't always a good deal, as often people on reduced hours working actually do proportionately more work, but get less reward. Also note that if one's agreed working hours are reduced below a certain level, then contracts and responsibilities can change quite a bit - not necessarily in an employee's favour. More unscrupulous empoyers will exploit that.

Mobility is another issue - if you moved. Would you be able to travel on public transport - would you still be able to drive? Driving in more remote parts of the UK is easier, but distances are further.

So yes - think carefully about how to proceed, but don't go jumping from one not very good situation into one which could be worse. Downsizing and relocating have to be thought out really rather carefully, as for many people there's no coming back.

Good luck with it all.

[struth]

wish i could relocate although i agree, you should be careful of what you wish for... grass and green springs to mind

[walpurgis]

Wiltshire appeals. Every time I drive through it I think 'what a beautiful county'. Forget any place within twenty miles of the M25, if it's not heading downhill yet, it will.

[Roy S]

Wiltshire appeals. Every time I drive through it I think 'what a beautiful county'. Forget any place within twenty miles of the M25, if it's not heading downhill yet, it will.

I'm only a mile from junction 28 and can't see any reason why the area should change significantly in the near future?

[Marco]

Isn't it bad enough already?





Marco.

[Marco]

Hi Dave,

All very good and valid points, which I totally agree with!

Retiring - yes - can be a good option, but a lot depends on how viable it is. Relocating/downsizing - we can't talk. We relocated, but actually our new house is bigger than our previous one.

Yes, but I'll wager bought and paid for by the sale of your house in London, or at least mortgaged at a much lower repayment rate, thus freeing up capital and increasing your disposable income accordingly!

*That* is exactly the point and what I'd always advocate as a being a good move: reducing debt/regular outgoings, increasing disposable income and subsequently putting YOURSELF in more control of your destiny, which in turn reduces the stress and pressure of having to rely upon others.

What's the point in being mortgaged up to the hilt, just to live in a 'fancy big house', if you have to work all the hours under the sun to pay for it, and suffer the stress of that in the process? Madness!

And yet, that's the position so many folk today finds themselves in, trying very hard (and often failing) to fund a lifestyle that they can ill afford, simply to maintain an image or keep up with others. That's why downsizing or downgrading, if necessary (or buying a bigger, but less expensive house in a less expensive area), and reducing your outgoings accordingly, can often pay dividends. And (misplaced) pride shouldn't come into it.

Quite simply, the MORE that YOU are in control of your life, instead of having to be at the beck and call of others (slave-driving employers, overly demanding/overbearing and selfish partners, etc), generally the happier and more contented you'll be. And if you genuinely love your wife or husband and have a good, solid marriage, then you'll be just as happy together in a smaller house, as ultimately it's your relationship that counts, nothing else.

Quite honestly, Del and I would be happy living in tent, if there was no other option, as long as we had each other!

I get all the points you've made about retirement, but the very important knock on effect of that, unless you're an incorrigible workaholic, is that it gives you more TIME to do the things that YOU want to do, including spending it with your loved ones and together making some nice memories. And for me, you can't put a price on that! Many of us today I believe would be happier with simpler lives and not wanting for superficial bollox that really ISN'T important.

The fact is, you'll always have your memories, which you can take with you and treasure beyond the grave, unlike the money in your bank account or big house... Ultimately, we are only custodians, for a limited period of time, of any property we live in - it's never truly ours - so why focus *so* much on what type of roof we have over our heads?

In today's materialistic world, we all get way too caught up in what we THINK we need (which is largely bullshit), rather than what we *actually* need, and that's a sense of self-worth, inner happiness and contentment, achieved by spending quality time in the company of those we love, and which is why PEOPLE will ultimately always matter more than possessions.....!

That's why that, whilst taking into account all of the valid points you've made, the above which I've outlined, should always act as the MAIN FOCUS for what is trying to be achieved, in terms of trying to improve your quality of life, as quite simply, life's too short to spend it in poor health being constantly stressed or miserable!

Marco.

[dave2010]

Hi Dave,

All very good and valid points, which I totally agree with!



Yes, but I'll wager bought and paid for by the sale of your house in London, or at least mortgaged at a much lower repayment rate, thus freeing up capital and increasing your disposable income accordingly!

*That* is exactly the point and what I'd always advocate as a being a good move: reducing debt/regular outgoings, increasing disposable income and subsequently putting YOURSELF in more control of your destiny, which in turn reduces the stress and pressure of having to rely upon others.

Absolutely.

We have been free of mortgage debt for quite a while now - but we have been fortunate. Not everyone is anywhere near so lucky. Many people feel trapped by circumstances or are in relationships they don't like, or can't cope with. Many people carry on with jobs they don't really like because they can't see any other way.

Regarding retiring - it can be OK, but if one is forced into retirement it can be a real bummer, particularly if one doesn't have any chance of getting more employment or more income. Some people are lucky, others not. I can't advise Adrian - I don't know him or his circumstances - but it's not always a good idea to retire just because it suits an employer.

Some people have additional funds they can use as a cushion. In one job I had there was someone who had what I think he called a "F U" fund - he'd had one or two heart attacks and said he was happy to carry on working as long as he was treated reasonably well, but he told me that if things went bad he'd tell the employer to stuff it and walk away. That may have been a lump sum from an earlier retirement.

There are people who can manage to live on very little - even on the State pension - but few people can manage that and feel comfortable.
Look before you leap is still a reasonable motto - though in truth I have leapt a few times - and financially things have worked out.

I agree that money isn't everything. There is an old saying "Money doesn't make you happy ...... but it helps!"

[Audio Al]

A raining good morning to you all

[AJSki2fly]

Hi Dave and Marco, I thank you both for your concern which is nice, as it makes one think about the situation you are faced with.

So here I am at 2:30 in the morning, awake with some angina again and the first thing that came into my head was the issue I have with my employer, not great I have to say. As you point out Dave it is a big decision to do the FU and walk, and like for most it has big financial implications.

I have been completely open and honest with my employer about my illness, and dealt with them with honesty and integrity on my part even after having a major heart attack weeks after they put me through a disciplinary for sick absence for 1 day breaking their.guidelines, and even with me having proof of me going to the doctors. I subsequently found out it was all caused by a “friendly” colleague who was not meeting targets at work and having a hard time from management he thought he divert attention from him by making up issues about others, what a nice chap.

So possibly foolishly at the time I let it go instead of raising a grievance, and did my best to return to work and move on. Sadly for me over the next 6 months it became apparent the CVD was worse than the said and I had more time of work for investigations, being ill, and 2 angioplasties. So back to work for a year, then became unwell again, 6 months of tests, several times I tried to return to work but within 2 weeks my illness was getting the better of me. Then a triple heart bypass and after 4 months recovery I go back to work initially on reduced hours and not customer facing. After 2 months angina issue start to develop and its back to Dr’s, they are concerned and perplexed, so signed off work and told to be careful until they know what was going on. Lots of scans and various drugs and after 6 months told a 2nd diagonal artery off of LAD failed, so that was that I had to get on with it was. They tried another drug earlier this year but it made me ill and has taken 2 months to recover,

So over the last 6 months I have had at least 4 discussions with my employer, mainly with one manager, suggesting I was unfit for my job or any other and they could find me duties me duties or a role, also she suggested I found another job working from home. so bear in mind that I have been told by medics to avoid stress and so has my employer in a 2 occupational health reports on me. They also failed to manage salary for SSP and subsequently paid me money I should not have had even though they had 4 month long term sick note for me, managers failing to do their job, and saying it was my fault for not updating a time capture system with my sick leave, these is actually a breach of what an employer can ask a employee to do when signed of sick, even though as soon as I realised the error and asked the manager to get it correct, in writing, two of them failed to act and compounded the issue for another 2 months. So much for ensuring my am not stressed!

So on Saturday I received a letter from one of these managers inviting me to a formal meetings my to discuss my “unacceptable sick absence since 23 October 2019, and since 2016”, and that this could result in termination of my contract. Lovely hey!

So after 10 years service and 7 yearly reviews marked as meeting expectations and 2 years exceeding expectations, of which 4 years I have have been in and out of hospital and pretty unwell it comes to this.

So my options are immediately raise grievances with HR, and put myself through a load of pain and stress, for an unknown outcome, but having taken advise probably max will be 3 months salary and possibly a little more, I can do with t on my own or get professional support which will cost at least £1k. It might even have to go to a Tribunal, not a pleasant prospect. Other option is go to the meeting and make it hard for them, but they will probably just tear up the contract anyway.

Final option is just do the FU and walk away, which is probably what I will do, just what is the point of allowing them to subject me to masses of stress and grief all for a few thousand and no job. So I will be writing a letter saying I cannot attend due to advice from my GP that the stress would detrimental to my health, they have everything they need to make decide fairly and leave it up to them and their conscience to do the right thing by me. At least I will walk away with some dignity and peace of mind.

So there you have it, I hope it has not been too boring a story. unfortunately and sadly I have been advised by professional people that deal with this sort of thing all the time it is a very common occurrence for employers to do everything they can to do as little as possible for employees, even though they tell their staff and the world they are caring and their staff are their most important resource and they do not discriminate. Often the large major companies are the worst apparently, certainly this seems to be so in my case.

A sad reflection of what society and the modern world has come to, all driven by greed and false values and people are suckered into it. How many times do we hear large organisations and Even small companies issues words such as for the good of the company, making a difference in society, changing thing for the better, because we care we make a difference, we are green because we strive to be and re-cycle what we can. My experience is it’s all ballshit and psychological propaganda to gain market acceptance and share in a highly false commercial world,all that really matters to those in control is making money and power. Sorry to say that but I think there will be very few organisations out there that are morally and ethically sound and actually look after people inside and outside their control, or even want to for that matter,

So I will move on, and Sue and I will make the best of what we have and enjoy life as much we can.

Thank you for your advice and concern it is much appreciated. Apologies for poor English or typos it is the middle of the night




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[struth]

Try not to worry and just force them to make the hard decisions.
Your doc can write a letter saying such a stressful meeti g would be dangerous perhaps