!! AOS insomniacs club !!

[Audio Al]

That's obviously because you're not getting enough sleep at night! Maybe if you told Anita to stop waking you up at 5am, to do goodness knows what that she couldn't otherwise do at a sociable hour, lol, you'd sleep more when you're supposed to, and less when you're not...?

Just a thought!

Oh, and I'm just up! Makes such a difference when Del doesn't have to set the alarm for 6.30am for work!

Marco.

Yes it WAS nice and peaceful and now -------

[Pigmy Pony]

That's obviously because you're not getting enough sleep at night! Maybe if you told Anita to stop waking you up at 5am, to do goodness knows what that she couldn't otherwise do at a sociable hour, lol, you'd sleep more when you're supposed to, and less when you're not...?

Just a thought!

Oh, and I'm just up! Makes such a difference when Del doesn't have to set the alarm for 6.30am for work!

Marco.

It's aches and pains that wake me up at night, and I don't know what can fix that, maybe drugs. A change of mattress may help, replacing the stupidly expensive one we currently have. It's there on my list, along with hoover bags, motorbike rebuild, lap top battery...

[Marco]

Sensible move, mate, but more seriously and I'm NOT having a dig here, that's what happens when you fuck up your body working too much, or probably more relevant in your case, doing a physical job that realistically you're now too old for...

Going up and down ladders all day (and whatever else you do in your line of work that takes it out of you physically), in all weathers, is fine when when you're younger, but for someone like you in their 60s, you get to 'know all about it' when you're lying in bed at night, and I suspect even more so first thing in the morning when you get up.

It's classic repetitive strain syndrome (combined with simple old age) and your body telling you that it's struggling to cope. A new mattress may well help, but it'll only act as a sticking plaster. If you want to effect REAL change in that area mate, in terms of reducing aches and pains, then quite simply, you need to change your lifestyle.

Marco.

[Pigmy Pony]

I think I may have exaggerated the amount of time I spend on ladders, I fit more doors than windows, although roofline work can be a bit hairy. I'm physically more than up to the jobs I do, although I do know I'm older than most - customers are always surprised when they learn how old I am, but that's more due to what I do rather than how I look.

My aches come from falling off motorbikes and scaffolds, rather than the physical demands of the work.

I do enjoy my job (not when the weather's shit, mind), I like the socialising with fellow workers, friends and customers, and don't want to think about when that must end.

I was chatting with a builder friend (on the phone!) the other day, and the 'stay at home' is driving him mad. He is "only" 53 and says he'll never retire, even though he's set for life financially. His work is like a hobby that pays him money (how many hobbies do that?) He sees this lockdown as a scary glimpse of what retirement may be like, and says he will never retire, not until he falls off his perch. So I will always have some work to do (with him) albeit with reduced hours. Fingers crossed my bones will carry me for many more years

[Marco]

I think I may have exaggerated the amount of time I spend on ladders, I fit more doors than windows, although roofline work can be a bit hairy. I'm physically more than up to the jobs I do, although I do know I'm older than most - customers are always surprised when they learn how old I am, but that's more due to what I do rather than how I look.

My aches come from falling off motorbikes and scaffolds, rather than the physical demands of the work.

Fair enough dude, but it does highlight the dangers of not looking after your body properly when you're young - it always comes back to bite you on the arse in later life...

I do enjoy my job (not when the weather's shit, mind), I like the socialising with fellow workers, friends and customers, and don't want to think about when that must end.

I get that, and enjoyed the same to an extent, but in normal times (not what we're facing currently) I can get all that without going to work, as I have plenty of friends to socialise with, but I'm still happiest spending time with Del. Quite simply, we never get bored with each other and rarely fall out. We're true soulmates, so we're enjoying every minute now of spending more time together

I was chatting with a builder friend (on the phone!) the other day, and the 'stay at home' is driving him mad. He is "only" 53 and says he'll never retire, even though he's set for life financially. His work is like a hobby that pays him money (how many hobbies do that?) He sees this lockdown as a scary glimpse of what retirement may be like, and says he will never retire, not until he falls off his perch. So I will always have some work to do (with him) albeit with reduced hours. Fingers crossed my bones will carry me for many more years

Good luck to him if he's happy (as that's all that matters), but that is *SO* different from how I see things, or my approach to life, which you already know and so don't need to repeat.

Is your builder friend married/has a partner or single?

What I really struggle to understand is how anyone who derives so much pleasure from work, and thus who throws his (or her) soul into it, can find the time and effort needed to maintain a healthy and loving relationship with their partners? I mean, if you're out working all the time, and your whole focus is on that, then surely something HAS to give in your relationship, unless you've never really been close?

Effectively, you're more MARRIED TO YOUR WORK, than you are to your wife or husband, and I find that quite sad.

One of the main reasons why I went semi-retired from my own business at 43, even though I wasn't a millionaire, or anything approaching that, was to spend MORE TIME with Del, as she absolutely hated me working long hours, and then when I did get home, being too tired and grumpy to enjoy her company - and that had been going on for years, because as you know, if you're self-employed you have to put the hours in to make it work!

So, we took the necessary steps to sort that problem, and now we've never been happier. And Del will retire herself in a couple of years. She could do it now, but like you, she loves her job, and as a teacher, if you're good at it like she is, you can make a MASSIVE difference to young people's lives - and that's why for now she's carrying on. However, she loves the fact that she doesn't have to worry about the house, as I take care of that, and can come home to a nice cup of tea, or glass of wine, and (sometimes) a meal prepared!

Therefore, each to his or her own, but I simply couldn't imagine my life being based solely around work and not having anything else to look forward to, until I was too old to do anything other than simply become an old man who's passed it!

It also makes me wonder whether most marriages these days are borne more out of convenience or a 'sense of duty' (especially if kids are involved), than true love - and that's why now when couples are being forced to live together under the one roof 24/7, for days and weeks on end, that the 'cracks' in their relationships are beginning to show.

My view is that if you'd rather spend more time at work than with your wife or husband, then you probably don't have a close relationship, or indeed much in common. That's why you'll struggle when working isn't in the equation, or to quote your builder friend, it presents: "a scary glimpse of what retirement may be like". I have to be honest and say that shocks me.

Quite simply, I doubt he would feel that way if he loved his wife (or partner) as much as his work.

Marco.

[Marco]

When you get a chance, Piggurs, I'd appreciate your thoughts on the above

Marco.

[Pigmy Pony]

Bloody hell! It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other you know, it doesn't have to be total devotion to your other half or a loveless job-oriented life - there's such a thing as a work/life balance, which seems to have passed you by, seeing as you went for an 'open all hours' job with no time left over for Del, to a 'stay at home' life, with no discernible challenges.

No offence intended, and I'm not angry or anything, but I just wanted to defend my mate - much as he loves his work, he always finishes about 4pm, never works weekends, and apart from going to all the home matches with his 85 year old dad, spends ALL his time with his wife and 3 girls. They get out quite a lot, and go on two holidays to the USA every year. There's no way he could be accused of loving his work more than his wife. Any more than you spending time cooking means you love food more than your wife

To be too old to do what he loves is a dread for him, and I can understand that.

I appreciate most of your comments were aimed at 'wage slaves' in general and no one in particular, whereas my reply was rather more 'targeted'. Sorry about that It's just that the only people I know that are living life your way is you "To each their own" as you are apt to say, after telling me I'm doing it wrong!

Does my invitation to one of your future barbecues still stand? Or have I


Well you did ask.

[Marco]

Lol - not at all. I always value honesty! As usual, we're not too far apart in our respective outlooks and values, once you've put a bit more 'meat on the bone', as it were

I get you now totally. I guess it was the "a scary glimpse of what retirement may be like" comment that got me, as I could never, EVER feel that way!

Quite simply, as soon as I started working, every spare penny I made was viewed with the notion of being one step closer to retiring - BUT at a young enough age to still be able to enjoy life - and my dad was the same. Work was simply an unfortunate necessity, which if you applied yourself well enough and were successful in your career, paved the way for a happy future of doing what you WANTED to do, rather than what you HAD to do..

Consequently he retired at 62, and look at him now at 87... You thought he was still in his fifties!

And that's largely because of him being able to enjoy himself and lead a stress-free life since he retired. And also as you know, he's not the type to just sit on his arse either, he's ALWAYS busy! I doubt he'd look or feel anywhere near as healthy as he does had stayed slaving away behind the counter of his chip shop for another 30 years, as my granddad did with his, although he did live to the ripe old age of 95, pretty much still fit as a fiddle until the end.

But my dad watched the life his mum and dad led, which revolved almost entirely around him being in the shop all day and night, and her being at home cooking and cleaning. They rarely went anywhere or seen anything different, other than the contents of the same four walls or their garden...It was a 'relationship' simply in name, not substance.

So my dad thought 'fuck that'; I want better for my own wife and family, and to LIVE, rather than merely 'exist'. So he worked like a dog for as long as was necessary to allow him to have enough money to retire at a reasonable age, and then spent time with his wife going out for nice holidays abroad and days out together, and never regretted a minute!! I also had a great life as kid and benefited from being raised by two wonderful parents.

So, my 'life template' was modelled largely on his. I just managed it earlier than he did, as i was fortunate enough to have made a bit more dosh early on [although it took its toll then on my relationship with Del], and have had no kids to support, plus a wife who was also working and earning good money. That's what a healthy marriage is all about: working together as a team towards achieving a common goal

Anyway, your invite is still open, if you'd like to come once all this crap is over (or as over as it's ever likely to be)....

Marco.

[Pigmy Pony]

Your garden is big enough, so you could have an AoS annual barbecue! It could be a bit like the Ewings' annual barbecue, form the TV series 'Dallas'. You just need a swimming pool - someone always ended up getting kicked into the swimming pool

[Audio Al]

Does anyone else suffer from Marco syndrome

I take one look at the encyclopaedia Britanica reply and sneak away

Oh GOD NO not another one