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Thread: Why you, your children & your grand-children can't put down a phone or Computer game

  1. #21
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    I'm Martin.

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    Pretty much anything can be used with 'evil' intent although I'd challenge the whole concept of 'evil intent.' It's very rare that people who do bad things actually think they are doing bad things. They see themselves as the good guys. People who know they are evil and enjoy being evil mostly only exist in fiction.

    In the example Anthony gave of the mother being on her phone instead of paying attention to the children, you could have seen the same thing fifty, a hundred or a thousand years ago, it's just that the nature of the distraction would be different.

    I know there's a whole middle-class parenting thing now that says the little darlings cannot be ignored even for a minute. The result is the children are spoiled, over-indulged and unable to entertain themselves for even a second. Much worse for society in the long term.

    IMO more parents need to tell their children to sod off and stop bugging them all the time.
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  2. #22
    Join Date: Feb 2008

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    I assure you, that was not the case, the children in my example were away playing by themselves for much of the time they were there, only a few times did they come back to her, and try and get her attention, and each time, she just brushed them away with one arm, while continuing holding, and looking at her phone in the other. This is just one example i see all the time, maybe i notice things more because i don't use a phone, or tablet of any kind when i am out and about.
    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I know there's a whole middle-class parenting thing now that says the little darlings cannot be ignored even for a minute. The result is the children are spoiled, over-indulged and unable to entertain themselves for even a second. Much worse for society in the long term.

    IMO more parents need to tell their children to sod off and stop bugging them all the time.
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  3. #23
    Join Date: Feb 2008

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    As for digital technology, or any modern technology for that matter; when used in a positive way it can indeed enhance our quality of life, and help us a great deal in our day to day lives.
    We just need to get the balance right, however; history has shown us that where humans are concerned, if we are able to do something, we find it very difficult to reason whether we should do it or not, and therefore end up doing it anyway!
    "Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
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  4. #24
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    I'm still waiting for someone to show some sort of concrete evidence that there is any major cause for concern.

    Technology changes, people don't. We have exactly the same societal issues now as the Romans and Greeks did 2000 years ago.
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  5. #25
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    You wait until 2.14 Eastern time, August 29th 1997,skynet will become self aware and we're all doomed
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  6. #26
    Join Date: Dec 2014

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
    You wait until 2.14 Eastern time, August 29th 1997,skynet will become self aware and we're all doomed

    I blame it all on HAL .....

  7. #27
    Join Date: Nov 2011

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    I'm Adrian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Pretty much anything can be used with 'evil' intent although I'd challenge the whole concept of 'evil intent.' It's very rare that people who do bad things actually think they are doing bad things. They see themselves as the good guys. People who know they are evil and enjoy being evil mostly only exist in fiction.
    I don't think that Marco meant "Evil" in the way you imply. However there are those who have the access and ability to use these AI tools for self benefit of themselves and the organisations they are part of. Unfortunately there are quite a few whose main aim is to move themselves up the ladder of power and control into elitism, which involves the accumulation of wealth and manipulation of others without those being impacted actually understanding or realising that they are being used in such a way. So the question is can this be viewed as evil or not, it really depends on your morals and what is defined as good of bad.

    I can sight a good example of AI being used for a very good purpose, the AI (or computer program.algorithms as you put it) was used to scan multiple breast scans for many, many months for tutors and the learning process was to compare whether the it had got the result correct or not, by comparing with what a human had determined. This is obviously done through a feed back loop process but the clever bit was that the AI program(s) actually self corrected and re-wrote aspects of itself to ensure it got more and more accurate. The end result was that it was able to scan any breast scan for cancer millions of times faster than a human and 10,000 times more accurately than a human. I believe this technology is now in the process of being ruled out in the USA, and will go elsewhere.

    On your point about there is no such think as Artificial Intelligence, that is actually not quite true, there are now machine and AI programs out there there can make autonomous decisions on their own and can also develop new precepts from what they have learned. The key here being able to develop new, not what they are programmed to do or learn.

    I would remind you of the logarithmic curve and apply this to computers and the technology around it. If you go back to mainframes and just do a simple comparison in terms of size, back in the 70's and early 80's a 128MB of central storage (CPU) were standard on the model 400 of a IBM 3090 machine and considered a sizeable machine. Then by the late 80's we have client server machines in boxes that could go under a desk with 4gb addressable physical memory, by the end of the 90's we were talking about computers with 36-bit address bus to support 64 GB of physical memory, and by the end of 00's speed and addressable RAM had increased again. in June 2007 onto the scene came the multifunctional hand held iPhone with touch screen, with up to 128 MB eDRAM(note the same size as an IBM 3090) and that quickly went up quickly in subsequent generations. The current top A13 processor in an iPhone has has 8.5 Billion Transistors, each one is 0 or 1 to run the code, that is over 1000MB, and it has 4GB RAM available. By the way if you look at clock speeds these have increased in a similar fashion. Similarly chip architecture has got smaller in 1979 the 8086 chip was 3000nm(nanometers), in 2000 a pentium 4 chip was 180nm, and the Intel Core i3-8121U in 2018 is 10nm in size.

    The point is that the development of the technology and the code that is run on them is now very much off the bottom of the logarithmic curve and is very rapidly ascending on the steep part., as is the self learning program(AI). Do not under-estimate the technology or what it is capable of doing, just to put this into some context if you had the programming skills and desire to do so, you could launch a Saturn 5 rocket, deploy to the moon, land a lunar shuttle, do all the navigation and manage all the control systems and come back using a current day mobile phone.
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  8. #28
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    Ok, I'm convinced, AI is here and will be making us do things we don't want to do, and buy shit we don't need. So how do we deal with it? All I'm hearing so far are the views from two camps: (a) don't see a problem, and (b) that's because you're thick, it is a problem. What's the solution? I'm all ears

    On a slightly related note, when I went down to the Asda the other day, I looked up as I went through the entrance, to see a TV screen with me on it. Not so unusual, CCTV has been around forever. But this looked a little different - there was a flashing box around my head, and that of a woman walking behind me. Facial recognition I guess. But why are they so interested in my face? I only went in for a Toblerone.
    I just dropped in, to see what condition my condition was in

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  9. #29
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    there are those who have the access and ability to use these AI tools for self benefit of themselves and the organisations they are part of. Unfortunately there are quite a few whose main aim is to move themselves up the ladder of power and control into elitism, which involves the accumulation of wealth and manipulation of others without those being impacted actually understanding or realising that they are being used in such a way. So the question is can this be viewed as evil or not, it really depends on your morals and what is defined as good of bad.

    There have always been people doing that. 'AI' is just another tool they can use to do that, I disagree that it is a game changer or that it means they are able to do anything that was not possible previously. It might make the process easier, or faster, assuming they are able to utilise it effectively* but that's about it.


    On your point about there is no such think as Artificial Intelligence, that is actually not quite true, there are now machine and AI programs out there there can make autonomous decisions on their own and can also develop new precepts from what they have learned. The key here being able to develop new, not what they are programmed to do or learn.

    I was a programmer, I understand how computers work. Learning programmes are nothing new. I agree that the tech makes them more powerful now than they were. But they are not 'intelligent' or adaptive in the way a human is intelligent and adaptive. And they never will be. We are no closer to a 'Commander Data' with his positronic brain than we were 100 years ago.




    * For example Amazon sends me e-mails advising me of tat that they sell which I might wish to buy. This is pretty much always something i just bought. e.g I bought a dehumidifier recently so what do they send me? Adverts for dehumidifiers. Given I just bought one it is arguably the one thing I am least likely to buy again, especially right away. In other words even a huge company like Amazon have no idea how to deploy such technology. If nothing else, incompetence and lack of ability will keep us safe
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  10. #30
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I'm still waiting for someone to show some sort of concrete evidence that there is any major cause for concern.
    Lol... FFS, you're not going to get any "concrete evidence", simply because if the problem was that bleeding obvious, it wouldn't be occurring surreptitiously!

    Plus, those who are not willingly part of 'the system', but still occupy positions of authority, would try and stop it. What do you want as proof, a written confession from Nathaniel Charles Jacob Rothschild, that he's one of the bastard elite who want to take over the world???

    Unfortunately I'm seeing the same stubbornly rigid-thinking and closed-mindedness in evidence here, as is usually present on cable threads... And the blinkered mentality of 'if it can't be proven then it doesn't exist'. Come on, use your own judgement, based upon opening your eyes and SEEING what's happening all around you. *That* is your evidence!

    You've already moaned elsewhere about the poor standards of literacy and general written communication you've experienced from your colleagues at work. I bet it wasn't always that bad?

    Grant posted an excerpt of an 'essay' that a school kid had presented to their teacher, written entirely in 'text speak', and which I can state from having a wife who's an English teacher, is far from being an uncommon occurrence now among her teenage students, neither are the deplorable overall standards of literacy among the young in general, and which are much worse now than they've ever been.

    The woman at the bank, who Mike mentioned on another thread, and who was unable to express herself properly in simple English, folk in shops now who can't count or perform basic arithmetic, as they're too used to the computerised till doing the calculations and thinking for them. The morons we see now on TV, often presenting discussions on serious subjects, yet whose views are considered by the masses as 'important'. iZombies walking into lamp posts because they're *so* fixated upon their screens, portraying the virtual world that they've become so obsessed with, deliberately created and controlled by the establishment.

    That type of brainwashing and stupidity exists all around us now, and thus forms your evidence...

    The fact is, the majority of people are becoming dumber, not cleverer - and free-thinking is deliberately being stifled by those with a controlling agenda, and who are practicing it by manipulating modern technology for their self-serving ends and/or those of their employers or superiors. That is the reality!

    It's ALL intrinsically linked mate, and part of the elite's long-term 'grand plan'. Quite simply, if you're susceptible to being led, rather insular and not very intelligent, then you're easy to manipulate and control - and that's exactly the type of people who 'they' want populating our world in future, and that we're breeding more and more of every day!

    Anyway, I know you'll never agree, as you're too binary thinking and fixated upon 'concrete evidence', thus unfortunately unable to see the bigger picture, and in the process completely missing the point, so I'll leave it there.

    Marco.

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