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Thread: WTD maybe: best of all worlds pre amp

  1. #41
    montesquieu Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by User211 View Post
    For the phono, no. For the line stage who knows. I'd need a circuit diagram.

    I am missing something? ETM aren't saying the phono stage is the same as 912. I am not saying it is.

    But ETM are claiming the info they have is from EAR.

    Confused.
    Indeed - specifically:

    'According to EAR, the $7595 model 868 has essentially the same circuitry and sound as its big brother, the Professional 912 preamplifier. The difference is that the 868 lacks some of the flexibility and features like the D'Arsonval meters of the Pro 912. '

    Which is plain wrong.

  2. #42
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Bristol

    Posts: 6,843
    I'm Justin.

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    Looking at it I would EXPECT to hear some difference in the line stage. The layout is very different even if it isn't topologically. Given that virtually everything seems to make some sonic difference I don't think my assertion is unrealistic.

    If it is topologically the same, I'd expect the difference to be small. But who knows. You'd have to try it by yourself to know and not rely on the accounts of other people, if you catch my drift.

    Tim may think they sound the same. I am not sure he is really an out and out audiophile.

  3. #43
    Bigman80 Guest

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    Those units both have Alps blue pots in.

    That is appauling for the cost.

  4. #44
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Bristol

    Posts: 6,843
    I'm Justin.

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    And RS Components. Where are the boutique parts apart from the step up trannies?

  5. #45
    montesquieu Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigman80 View Post
    Those units both have Alps blue pots in.

    That is appauling for the cost.
    Yes Tim is famous for using cheap components - as far as he is concerned the electrical value is all that matters. Where he is strong is in the transformers, he custom winds all of these.

    I had an EAR V20 once, had literally dozens of resistors changed out for fancy ones, lots of other components changed out especially in the power supply, the thing was absolutely transformed. I did think about going to town on the 912 to see what the impact might be, but it's a tight squeeze in there to do anything major in the end I decided to make a bigger change.

  6. #46
    Bigman80 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by montesquieu View Post
    Yes Tim is famous for using cheap components - as far as he is concerned the electrical value is all that matters. Where he is strong is in the transformers, he custom winds all of these.

    I had an EAR V20 once, had literally dozens of resistors changed out for fancy ones, lots of other components changed out especially in the power supply, the thing was absolutely transformed. I did think about going to town on the 912 to see what the impact might be, but it's a tight squeeze in there to do anything major in the end I decided to make a bigger change.
    I am stunned, Tom.

    Seriously stunned.

  7. #47
    Join Date: Mar 2009

    Location: Nottingham

    Posts: 625
    I'm Ian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hifinutt View Post
    Have a look at the bel canto pre 3 I am selling , it has an organic sound and pretty detailed but not clinical.some folks use them with etc active. I am not sure of the technical match but it worked beautifully with my msb .firebottle made the psu for it.
    Hi Phil

    sorry for the delay in replying, the PRe3 looks possible spec wise, albeit over budget but it makes sense to try Alan's suggestion below before I explore anything further.

    Ian

  8. #48
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: belgrade serbia

    Posts: 840
    I'm gordan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by montesquieu View Post
    Yes Tim is famous for using cheap components - as far as he is concerned the electrical value is all that matters. Where he is strong is in the transformers, he custom winds all of these.

    I had an EAR V20 once, had literally dozens of resistors changed out for fancy ones, lots of other components changed out especially in the power supply, the thing was absolutely transformed. I did think about going to town on the 912 to see what the impact might be, but it's a tight squeeze in there to do anything major in the end I decided to make a bigger change.
    Yes. This is exactly an echo of a talk I once had in Vienna with the owner of possibly the best system I've ever heard - a famous Austrian underground speaker designer. He is a big fan of TdP topologies but he hates his execution with basic parts. When I was there, he had DAC4 and pre 912, completely reconstructed at every critical detail.

    I had no point of reference (I used to own only 864) but this sounded so good that I was gobsmacked. I remember he especially praised 912 phono as possibly the best commercial one, after a few improvements. And this gentlemen is as critical of audio gear as you can imagine.

    I had 864, I've always thought that 868 wasn't a step ahead but a side move towards a layout with more accessible/cheaper tubes.
    Last edited by anubisgrau; 24-09-2019 at 08:56.
    Gordan.
    Speakers: Oris Swing MkII
    Amps: Thomas Mayer 300b/ Hiraga La Maison de L'Audiophile 20
    Preamp: Silver AVC by eng. Ferenc Lazar
    Phono Preamp: Shishido LCR by Solaja Audio
    Decks: Garrard 301 Martin Bastin reworked/plinthed with Fidelity Research FR64fx
    Garrard 401 in eng Ferenc Lazar solid wenge plinth with SME 3012/2
    Cartridges: SPU Spirit/ Koetsu Black revisited by eng. Salai/ Miyajima Shilabe
    Step Up Transformers: Tango MCT 999/ Ortofon T-5000/ Lumiere SUT
    Digital: Shigaclone by eng. Ferenc Lazar with Lampizator Amber II
    Wires: of sufficient length

  9. #49
    Join Date: Nov 2017

    Location: Kenilworth, UK

    Posts: 224
    I'm Kim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by montesquieu View Post
    Indeed - specifically:

    'According to EAR, the $7595 model 868 has essentially the same circuitry and sound as its big brother, the Professional 912 preamplifier. The difference is that the 868 lacks some of the flexibility and features like the D'Arsonval meters of the Pro 912. '

    Which is plain wrong.
    I replaced an 868PL with Tom’s 912 and can confirm that the line stages do indeed sound very different. I was quite taken aback, having ingested the “essentially the same circuitry” line. I’m not really qualified to say if it is or is not physically, but the 912 sounds significantly better.

    There is a chance that Tom had installed better SQ valves, but the valve type/brand was the same and I would not expect the difference to be so pronounced.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Garrard 401 / EAR / AURALiC / DAC? / Spendor
    Border Patrol / Naim / Harbeth

  10. #50
    Join Date: Sep 2009

    Location: west mids, UK

    Posts: 3,268
    I'm Phil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Ian View Post
    Hi Phil

    sorry for the delay in replying, the PRe3 looks possible spec wise, albeit over budget but it makes sense to try Alan's suggestion below before I explore anything further.

    Ian
    thanks ian , yes sounded pretty fine with the msb but thats got now so on an integrated amp bender !!
    ou might slip, you might slide, you might
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    Remember you're walking up to heaven

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    … Walk with the rich, walk with the poor
    Learn from everyone, that's what life is for
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