Wilson Benesch speakers

[fatmarley]

The VD certainly makes a difference, the edge has gone off screechy rock records, but so has some insight, and clarity. Early days but overall more listenable I think, yet still my speakers emit a nasally sound. I'll give it a week then switch back to the QED and see which I prefer, or whether I need to change something else, can't help thinking overall my system sounds rather flat.

I think you could write a book about your hifi journey.
Shame you live so far away, because you desperately need someone to bring a boot load of kit round to sort your problem.

[Lawrence001]

I'm not familiar with vinyl setups, or Quad amps, enough to comment on that but I'd certainly say, from looking at Mike's signature, that on the digital side there are improvements that could be made for relatively little outlay. Also what valves are in the Croft?

Bake off at Mike's??

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[Mikeandvan]

I think you could write a book about your hifi journey.
Shame you live so far away, because you desperately need someone to bring a boot load of kit round to sort your problem.

Well looking at other threads it seems some folk have changed hifi components a lot more than me! But yeh would be good to listen to other kit without having to buy it first!!

[Mikeandvan]

I'm not familiar with vinyl setups, or Quad amps, enough to comment on that but I'd certainly say, from looking at Mike's signature, that on the digital side there are improvements that could be made for relatively little outlay. Also what valves are in the Croft?

Bake off at Mike's??

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Hi Lawrence, The Croft was recently given the once over by Alan firebottle, and made a little mod that improved dynamics. I'm not sure what valves it contains, but I did wonder about changing them, and what effect that would produce. I'm really not sure how good my Mission pcm 7000 is either, I am always on the lookout for one of the super Sony ES cdps, or many of the other Jap offerings from the 90s by Marantz, Pioneer etc etc....Don't know too many AOS members locally, but I think the Wam has some, will have to investigate

[Lawrence001]

Hi Lawrence, The Croft was recently given the once over by Alan firebottle, and made a little mod that improved dynamics. I'm not sure what valves it contains, but I did wonder about changing them, and what effect that would produce. I'm really not sure how good my Mission pcm 7000 is either, I am always on the lookout for one of the super Sony ES cdps, or many of the other Jap offerings from the 90s by Marantz, Pioneer etc etc....Don't know too many AOS members locally, but I think the Wam has some, will have to investigate

I'm not going to pass judgement on Alan's work which is always high quality, but from my experience with "improved" speed and dynamics in general, it often introduces other elements which are not to my taste. Eg. I couldn't live for a week with a Naim system and small bookshelf speakers which were the epitomy of the PRaT movement of the 80s. I've often found that such system changes include tipping the balance from the lower frequencies to the higher for perceived improvements in pace which, while being to many people's tastes, are not to mine. Have you noticed the issues you are having since the Croft was modified or has it always been there?

I would be interested to see some pics of the valves in the Croft. I know Glenn voices his standard amps to match reasonably priced and common valves which assures the buyer of cheap replacements later down the line. I think they used to be JJs a few years ago, then he seems to have moved on to Edicron but don't quote me on that. Sometimes putting better valves in a Croft can make it sound worse due to the voicing that Glenn gives it to match the valves he used at the time.

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[Firebottle]

I'm not going to pass judgement on Alan's work which is always high quality, but from my experience with "improved" speed and dynamics in general, it often introduces other elements which are not to my taste.

---
Have you noticed the issues you are having since the Croft was modified or has it always been there?

Hi Laurence, thanks for the vote of confidence
When I recommend or make modifications it is almost always to give a better performance but not 'improved speed'. In this case the circuit was limited in its dynamics due to it being at the budget end of the Croft line. Re-figuring the circuit made a good improvement but not in any way introducing other limitations.

I believe Mike was having the issues before any modifications were made

[Lawrence001]

Hi Laurence, thanks for the vote of confidence
When I recommend or make modifications it is almost always to give a better performance but not 'improved speed'. In this case the circuit was limited in its dynamics due to it being at the budget end of the Croft line. Re-figuring the circuit made a good improvement but not in any way introducing other limitations.

I believe Mike was having the issues before any modifications were made

I was confident that would be the case knowing the quality of your upgrades, but there's always the chance that what most would regard as an upgrade, some people because of their personal taste prefer without, so I just wanted to get to the bottom of that. In this case it sounds like there's a more fundamental issue with the system (according to Mike's taste, room etc at least).

Best to look at the easiest and cheapest to solve potential problems before looking elsewhere. Eg cables and valves, and free trials of other components.

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[Macca]

The VD certainly makes a difference, the edge has gone off screechy rock records, but so has some insight, and clarity. Early days but overall more listenable I think, yet still my speakers emit a nasally sound. I'll give it a week then switch back to the QED and see which I prefer, or whether I need to change something else, can't help thinking overall my system sounds rather flat.

No doubt I'll be pilloried for this but if your priorities are insight and clarity Croft isn't where I would start.

[AJSki2fly]

Well, my amps are Quad 909 + Croft 25, so quite suitable I'd guess, thing is even with those amps and my current speakers - Chario Syntar, my set up still produces quite unpleasant sibilance in the higher frequencies, I just think my listening rooms acoustics is pants and there's nowt I can do about it.

Mike, I have read through this thread and note your issues.

I have looked at each of your components from a general review point of view, IMO neither of your front ends Nottingham TT set up and Mission PCM would normally not produce the type of sound you describe, sibilance and harsh top end. If this is happening when playing vinyl only then it is likely your cartridge/arm is not set up properly and the arm is too high at the rear making the VTA wrong for your cartridge. If it is the same with vinyl or CD on then it is further down the system set up.

The QED XT40 cable have has had good reviews and it is unlikely to be these IMO. So that leaves you the Croft, and Quads, and possibly speakers. Firstly do you get the same issue with both the 909 and the 306? if yes then it is either the Croft, your interconnects or your speakers(unlikely IMO, they are not widely known but are not know for being harsh, I also noted you had the same issue with your previous speakers Raurk).

I do not know much about the Straight Wires, which are you using, if they are silver then they may be introducing a harshness, or emphasised top end.

So if it was me I would put back your QED cables first and then replace the Straight Wires with basic interconnects and see what happens, perhaps some one can lend you two pairs, I have several I can post you if you like.

If the above removes the sibilance you have the culprit, if not then I suspect it will be the Croft causing the harsh top end, one way to prove this is to remove the pre-amp and replace it with temporarily with a simple passive pre-amp(perhaps someone could lend you one), you should get enough voltage out of the CD or Phono stage to drive the Quads will just need a bit more volume. You should then get a clean signal path to the power amps and can judge if the harshness has gone. If not then it is time to move further on down the line, you have already tried speaker cables so possibly borrow/try out some other speakers (but I would say this is last resort).

I hope this helps in some way, having been there myself with systems sounding odd several times it can be frustrating getting to what is the cause.

[Mikeandvan]

I'm not going to pass judgement on Alan's work which is always high quality, but from my experience with "improved" speed and dynamics in general, it often introduces other elements which are not to my taste. Eg. I couldn't live for a week with a Naim system and small bookshelf speakers which were the epitomy of the PRaT movement of the 80s. I've often found that such system changes include tipping the balance from the lower frequencies to the higher for perceived improvements in pace which, while being to many people's tastes, are not to mine. Have you noticed the issues you are having since the Croft was modified or has it always been there?

I would be interested to see some pics of the valves in the Croft. I know Glenn voices his standard amps to match reasonably priced and common valves which assures the buyer of cheap replacements later down the line. I think they used to be JJs a few years ago, then he seems to have moved on to Edicron but don't quote me on that. Sometimes putting better valves in a Croft can make it sound worse due to the voicing that Glenn gives it to match the valves he used at the time.

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The issues were there before and after the work was done, its not only when using the croft as a pre either, the same when I used a passive, the sound is better after Alans mod. Perhaps I need to turn my attention to my sources?