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Thread: Best subwoofer for Falcon LS3/5a?

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  1. #1
    Join Date: May 2015

    Location: Greece

    Posts: 249
    I'm Panos.

    Default Best subwoofer for Falcon LS3/5a?

    Hi,

    I love my Falcon LS3/5a for all the known reasons that LS3/5a have a loyal fan base. Having said that, I believe that my small speakers could use some extra bottom-end 'body', which is of course limited due to their limited volume.

    I am wondering whether a subwoofer might be able to do the trick and offer the desired extension below 80Hz, but WITHOUT negatively affecting the speed and naturalness of the Falcons.

    Oh, I have to clarify that I am also a neafield devotee, not due to room limitations, but because I feel that the nearfield listening position gives me more detail, more transparency and less room intervention.

    Any comments about using a subwoofer? Any suggestions about subwoofers that could be a good match with the LS3/5a?

    Enclosed a sketch of my listening room (blue area).

    Thanks in advance for any feedback.

    ListeningRoom_FalconLS3:5a.jpg
    System1: Lenco L75 with custom plinth, SLAT, sph bearing, SG4 external power supply + Alfred Bokrand AB-309 tonearm + Denon DL103R (aluminum body) + Well Tempered 12" tonearm clone + Denon DL103R (wooden body), ASR Mini Basis Exclusive HV, Marantz CD6005, LAB12 DAC1 SE+, Hattor BIG passive + active pre, Lab12 Suono power amp, Falcon LS3/5a Gold Badge, LAB12 Gordian, Belden 8428, Black Cat Red Level Triode, LAB12 Knack MkII

    System 2: Roksan Xerxes original (HiFi Inspire plinth) with Maxon ReMax motor + Audiomods Series6 + Ortofon Cadenza Black microridge retipped, ASR Mini Basis Exclusive, Marantz CD6003, Croft Micro25R + Series7R monoblocks (110W/ea), Harbeth SHL5 Plus 40th Anniv.

    System 3: Marantz CD6003, Croft SuperMicroII ('R' spec by Croft, Tesla E83CC in phono)+ Series7, Snell Type EII (with bypass caps, new internal wiring, WBT nextgen 0703Cu), Mark Grant HDX1, Atlas Hyper 3.0

  2. #2
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: The Black Country

    Posts: 6,089
    I'm Alan.

    Default

    You can't go wrong with REL subs.

  3. #3
    Join Date: May 2015

    Location: Greece

    Posts: 249
    I'm Panos.

    Default

    Thanks, Alan,

    I think that -apart from its inherent sonic qualities- the subwoofer should also have as many controls as possible, to facilitate the integration with the speakers in the given listening room. Would you agree?
    System1: Lenco L75 with custom plinth, SLAT, sph bearing, SG4 external power supply + Alfred Bokrand AB-309 tonearm + Denon DL103R (aluminum body) + Well Tempered 12" tonearm clone + Denon DL103R (wooden body), ASR Mini Basis Exclusive HV, Marantz CD6005, LAB12 DAC1 SE+, Hattor BIG passive + active pre, Lab12 Suono power amp, Falcon LS3/5a Gold Badge, LAB12 Gordian, Belden 8428, Black Cat Red Level Triode, LAB12 Knack MkII

    System 2: Roksan Xerxes original (HiFi Inspire plinth) with Maxon ReMax motor + Audiomods Series6 + Ortofon Cadenza Black microridge retipped, ASR Mini Basis Exclusive, Marantz CD6003, Croft Micro25R + Series7R monoblocks (110W/ea), Harbeth SHL5 Plus 40th Anniv.

    System 3: Marantz CD6003, Croft SuperMicroII ('R' spec by Croft, Tesla E83CC in phono)+ Series7, Snell Type EII (with bypass caps, new internal wiring, WBT nextgen 0703Cu), Mark Grant HDX1, Atlas Hyper 3.0

  4. #4
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: Notts

    Posts: 2,741
    I'm Geoff.

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    I bought my Rogers LS3/5a's 40 years ago. Frankly, I have never heard them work well with sub-woofers, even those designed specifically for them. I have always found that a mega powerful amp does more to address their fundamental bass problems. Yes, a sub-woofer will provide a deeper sound but it will not provide a better one!

  5. #5
    Join Date: May 2015

    Location: Greece

    Posts: 249
    I'm Panos.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherwood View Post
    I bought my Rogers LS3/5a's 40 years ago. Frankly, I have never heard them work well with sub-woofers, even those designed specifically for them. I have always found that a mega powerful amp does more to address their fundamental bass problems. Yes, a sub-woofer will provide a deeper sound but it will not provide a better one!
    Thanks for your feedback, Goeff.

    It may sound rather heretic, but I seem to prefer my Falcon LS3/5a over my bigger and more expensive Harbeth SHL5 Plus 40th Anniversary. That says a lot in favor of the Falcons.

    Of course just adding a subwoofer (irrespective of the subwoofer quality) without the proper, very careful integration, may fix some things and deteriorate others. So, IMHO, integration is key.
    System1: Lenco L75 with custom plinth, SLAT, sph bearing, SG4 external power supply + Alfred Bokrand AB-309 tonearm + Denon DL103R (aluminum body) + Well Tempered 12" tonearm clone + Denon DL103R (wooden body), ASR Mini Basis Exclusive HV, Marantz CD6005, LAB12 DAC1 SE+, Hattor BIG passive + active pre, Lab12 Suono power amp, Falcon LS3/5a Gold Badge, LAB12 Gordian, Belden 8428, Black Cat Red Level Triode, LAB12 Knack MkII

    System 2: Roksan Xerxes original (HiFi Inspire plinth) with Maxon ReMax motor + Audiomods Series6 + Ortofon Cadenza Black microridge retipped, ASR Mini Basis Exclusive, Marantz CD6003, Croft Micro25R + Series7R monoblocks (110W/ea), Harbeth SHL5 Plus 40th Anniv.

    System 3: Marantz CD6003, Croft SuperMicroII ('R' spec by Croft, Tesla E83CC in phono)+ Series7, Snell Type EII (with bypass caps, new internal wiring, WBT nextgen 0703Cu), Mark Grant HDX1, Atlas Hyper 3.0

  6. #6
    Join Date: Sep 2018

    Location: London

    Posts: 88
    I'm Howard.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherwood View Post
    I bought my Rogers LS3/5a's 40 years ago. Frankly, I have never heard them work well with sub-woofers, even those designed specifically for them. I have always found that a mega powerful amp does more to address their fundamental bass problems. Yes, a sub-woofer will provide a deeper sound but it will not provide a better one!
    I was interested in your comment, can you say a bit more - which amps, how powerful?

    I don’t have Falcon LS3/5A but I have a distant relation, Rogers JR 149s. They sound great for chamber music with a Quad 306. To some extent the midrange and image is so good that you just forget their weaknesses. But I can’t use them for music which where lower frequencies matter more.

    I use a pair of subs very successfully with electrostatics, but I would prefer to try other ways partly because of the difficulty of integration (it took a year of experimentation before I was happy with the ESL subs settings!) and partly because . . . well why not?

  7. #7
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: Notts

    Posts: 2,741
    I'm Geoff.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandryka View Post
    I was interested in your comment, can you say a bit more - which amps, how powerful?

    I don’t have Falcon LS3/5A but I have something similar, Rogers JR 149s. They sound great for chamber music with a Quad 306. To some extent the midrange and image is so good that you just forget their weaknesses. But I can’t use them for music which where lower frequencies matter more.

    I use subs very successfully with electrostatics, but I would prefer to try other ways partly because of the difficulty of integration (it took a year of experimentation before I was happy with the ESL subs settings!) and partly because . . . well why not?

    When I bought the Rogers LS3/5a's I first used them with Rogers own A75 MkII amp. This was highly recommended at the time and it did sound pretty good. However, it's limitations became apparent when I paired them with a Rogers Cadet II valve amp. On paper, the Cadet valve integrated was hugely underpowered and should have sounded poor in comparison with the solid state A75. It didn't! In fact, it wiped the floor with the A75. I was told that the high voltage swings with the valve design suited the inefficient LS3/5a's. I found the sound to further improve when I paired them with an Art Audio Quintet power amp. This preserved the improved dynamics of the Cadet but added more weight to the bass and midrange. I then tried a huge home built Mosfet power amp and the bass become so much better controlled. Previously, there was always a danger of the driver "chuffing" when driven hard, bu the extra control of the Mosfet greatly increased bass solidity and control.

    Although your JR149's use the same drivers, they are a not sealed box design so I cannot say that they would respond similarly. However, I am sure they would respond well to a high current solid state design. A couple of years ago I got the Rogers LS3/5a's out of storage and tried them with an Odyssey class A/B power amp and a NuPrime class D power amp. They sounded great with both designs.

  8. #8
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pankon View Post
    Thanks, Alan,

    I think that -apart from its inherent sonic qualities- the subwoofer should also have as many controls as possible, to facilitate the integration with the speakers in the given listening room. Would you agree?
    I think you summed it up here on your second post.
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

  9. #9
    Join Date: May 2015

    Location: Greece

    Posts: 249
    I'm Panos.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    I think you summed it up here on your second post.
    What happens if no subwoofer can fulfill both requirements? You may have seen the two candidates in my short list. What should I choose? Musicality or ease-of-use with the app?
    System1: Lenco L75 with custom plinth, SLAT, sph bearing, SG4 external power supply + Alfred Bokrand AB-309 tonearm + Denon DL103R (aluminum body) + Well Tempered 12" tonearm clone + Denon DL103R (wooden body), ASR Mini Basis Exclusive HV, Marantz CD6005, LAB12 DAC1 SE+, Hattor BIG passive + active pre, Lab12 Suono power amp, Falcon LS3/5a Gold Badge, LAB12 Gordian, Belden 8428, Black Cat Red Level Triode, LAB12 Knack MkII

    System 2: Roksan Xerxes original (HiFi Inspire plinth) with Maxon ReMax motor + Audiomods Series6 + Ortofon Cadenza Black microridge retipped, ASR Mini Basis Exclusive, Marantz CD6003, Croft Micro25R + Series7R monoblocks (110W/ea), Harbeth SHL5 Plus 40th Anniv.

    System 3: Marantz CD6003, Croft SuperMicroII ('R' spec by Croft, Tesla E83CC in phono)+ Series7, Snell Type EII (with bypass caps, new internal wiring, WBT nextgen 0703Cu), Mark Grant HDX1, Atlas Hyper 3.0

  10. #10
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pankon View Post
    What happens if no subwoofer can fulfill both requirements? You may have seen the two candidates in my short list. What should I choose? Musicality or ease-of-use with the app?
    I don't know the subwoofers you referred to, but the key requirement surely has to be integration? I'd opt for something that has great flexibility of control.
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

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