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Thread: Best subwoofer for Falcon LS3/5a?

  1. #41
    Join Date: May 2015

    Location: Greece

    Posts: 244
    I'm Panos.

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    Several months again after the original post about finding a subwoofer for my Falcon LS3/5a, I have to admit that I have not taken a decision. I am reopening my quest. The new piece of information is that SVS have recently introduced a new model, the SB2000 Pro (closed box with 12" driver and DSP, adjustable via a mobile app). The price is in the range of 1,000€.

    However, the REL T7/i still remains strong contender in my mind. It has the high-level connection to the speaker binding posts of the amp (which the SVS does not). How important/advantageous is the high-level connection over low-level input? But there is also another caveat. I have Croft monoblocks and that means -according to REL- I can connect the sub only to one monoblock via the high-level input. So, half job, unless I also get a second REL for the other channel as well. And no DSP capability either.
    I have also noted the possible locations, where the sub could be positioned within my room (red boxes).

    So, what do you guys think? SVS SB-2000 Pro or REL T/7i for my little Falcons?

    Thanks for your opinion!

    Listening Room.jpg
    System1: Roksan Xerxes original (HiFi Inspire plinth) with OriginLive DC motor + Audiomods Series6 + Ortofon Cadenza Black microridge retipped, ASR Mini Basis Exclusive, Marantz CD6005, LAB12 DAC1 SE+, Hattor BIG passive + active pre, Croft Micro25RSLS + Series7R monoblocks (110W/ea), Harbeth SHL5 Plus 40th Anniv., Falcon LS3/5a, LAB12 Gordian, Belden 8428, Black Cat Red Level Triode, LAB12 Knack MkII

    System 2: Marantz CD6003, Croft SuperMicroII ('R' spec by Croft, Tesla E83CC in phono)+ Series7, Snell Type EII (with bypass caps, new internal wiring, WBT nextgen 0703Cu), Mark Grant HDX1, Atlas Hyper 3.0

  2. #42
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: Much Wenlock

    Posts: 1,193
    I'm Gary.

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    I can answer half of your question, but it raises a question.

    High level inputs are much better for SQ than low level in my opinion.......but what is your source of the low level out put?

    Gary




    Quote Originally Posted by pankon View Post
    Several months again after the original post about finding a subwoofer for my Falcon LS3/5a, I have to admit that I have not taken a decision. I am reopening my quest. The new piece of information is that SVS have recently introduced a new model, the SB2000 Pro (closed box with 12" driver and DSP, adjustable via a mobile app). The price is in the range of 1,000€.

    However, the REL T7/i still remains strong contender in my mind. It has the high-level connection to the speaker binding posts of the amp (which the SVS does not). How important/advantageous is the high-level connection over low-level input? But there is also another caveat. I have Croft monoblocks and that means -according to REL- I can connect the sub only to one monoblock via the high-level input. So, half job, unless I also get a second REL for the other channel as well. And no DSP capability either.
    I have also noted the possible locations, where the sub could be positioned within my room (red boxes).

    So, what do you guys think? SVS SB-2000 Pro or REL T/7i for my little Falcons?

    Thanks for your opinion!

    Listening Room.jpg
    It is easier to seek forgiveness than to ask permission

    Rules are meant for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men

  3. #43
    Join Date: May 2015

    Location: Greece

    Posts: 244
    I'm Panos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stryder5 View Post
    I can answer half of your question, but it raises a question.

    High level inputs are much better for SQ than low level in my opinion.......but what is your source of the low level out put?

    Gary
    Hi Gary,

    thanks for your response. Well, if I have understood your question correctly, my sources are a phono stage (ASR Mini Basis Exclusive) and a DAC (LAB12 DAC1 SE). They feed a Hattor BIG passive preamp (with high quality Khozmo attenuators), which in turn feeds a Hattor valve active stage (with ECC82 valves). The valve active stage connects to the Croft monoblocks. If I have to use line-level connection for the sub, I will connect an RCA pair from the line level out from the Hattor valve active stage to the sub's input. I hope to have answered what you've asked.

    Cheers,
    Panos
    System1: Roksan Xerxes original (HiFi Inspire plinth) with OriginLive DC motor + Audiomods Series6 + Ortofon Cadenza Black microridge retipped, ASR Mini Basis Exclusive, Marantz CD6005, LAB12 DAC1 SE+, Hattor BIG passive + active pre, Croft Micro25RSLS + Series7R monoblocks (110W/ea), Harbeth SHL5 Plus 40th Anniv., Falcon LS3/5a, LAB12 Gordian, Belden 8428, Black Cat Red Level Triode, LAB12 Knack MkII

    System 2: Marantz CD6003, Croft SuperMicroII ('R' spec by Croft, Tesla E83CC in phono)+ Series7, Snell Type EII (with bypass caps, new internal wiring, WBT nextgen 0703Cu), Mark Grant HDX1, Atlas Hyper 3.0

  4. #44
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: Much Wenlock

    Posts: 1,193
    I'm Gary.

    Default

    Hi,

    I think I understand your issue, the REL has only one low level input as usually if using an AV amp the R and L channels are down mixed to provide an output to the sub.

    So we have a problem that you say REL have identified using mono-bloc’s ( I thought this was only an issue using ‘D’ class amps, could be wrong though) can you clarify this with REL I thought that a positive speaker output from each amp and negative from the case of one of the amps would work DONT TAKE MY WORD ON THAT PLEASE VERIFY. This would be high level.

    Your solution using active stage will give you high level outputs into the SVS 2000 sub, which has L and R RCA’s and does it’s own mixing. Does your active have more than one set of RCA outputs, one for power amp and one for sub that are switched at the same.

    Hope I understood.

    Gary
    It is easier to seek forgiveness than to ask permission

    Rules are meant for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men

  5. #45
    Join Date: May 2015

    Location: Greece

    Posts: 244
    I'm Panos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stryder5 View Post
    Hi,

    I think I understand your issue, the REL has only one low level input as usually if using an AV amp the R and L channels are down mixed to provide an output to the sub.

    So we have a problem that you say REL have identified using mono-bloc’s ( I thought this was only an issue using ‘D’ class amps, could be wrong though) can you clarify this with REL I thought that a positive speaker output from each amp and negative from the case of one of the amps would work DONT TAKE MY WORD ON THAT PLEASE VERIFY. This would be high level.

    Your solution using active stage will give you high level outputs into the SVS 2000 sub, which has L and R RCA’s and does it’s own mixing. Does your active have more than one set of RCA outputs, one for power amp and one for sub that are switched at the same.

    Hope I understood.

    Gary
    Hi Gary,

    as a matter of fact, the issue with REL is that a single REL sub can connect to either a stereo amp or one monoblock via the high-level input. If one has monoblock amplifiers (like me), it is possible to connect (via the high-level input) only one of the monoblocks to the REL sub, either the left or the right. The high-level output of the two monoblocks CANNOT (MUST NOT) be mixed into a single REL. That's an issue for me.

    To connect a REL via the low-level input, one has to mix the two channels into the single-post low-level input of the sub. But that's easily feasible with a Y-connector.

    My active tube preamplifier (Hattor) has 4 sets of output connections (2x2 RCA and 2x2 XLR). Currently only one set of RCA outputs is taken to drive my Croft monoblocks. I have 3 sets of outputs free (1 RCA and 2 XLR). I could easily use any of those three to drive a sub. In the case of the SVS, I would be able to use the free set of RCA as input to the low-level input.

    I hope to have clarified the situation.

    Thanks

    Panos
    Last edited by pankon; 25-01-2020 at 17:17.
    System1: Roksan Xerxes original (HiFi Inspire plinth) with OriginLive DC motor + Audiomods Series6 + Ortofon Cadenza Black microridge retipped, ASR Mini Basis Exclusive, Marantz CD6005, LAB12 DAC1 SE+, Hattor BIG passive + active pre, Croft Micro25RSLS + Series7R monoblocks (110W/ea), Harbeth SHL5 Plus 40th Anniv., Falcon LS3/5a, LAB12 Gordian, Belden 8428, Black Cat Red Level Triode, LAB12 Knack MkII

    System 2: Marantz CD6003, Croft SuperMicroII ('R' spec by Croft, Tesla E83CC in phono)+ Series7, Snell Type EII (with bypass caps, new internal wiring, WBT nextgen 0703Cu), Mark Grant HDX1, Atlas Hyper 3.0

  6. #46
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: Much Wenlock

    Posts: 1,193
    I'm Gary.

    Default

    Hi,

    The svs is the most elegant solution for high level then in your case, and the reports are great.

    Mine is in position top left in your diagram I had it in bottom left too try both see which you prefer.

    Gary
    It is easier to seek forgiveness than to ask permission

    Rules are meant for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men

  7. #47
    Join Date: Aug 2012

    Location: Belfast

    Posts: 138
    I'm Tim.

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    The secret with subs is having two (massive difference to speed and tone) and turn them down very low...that way they’ll just support the bass below your speakers but more noticeable than the bass is a dramatic change to the soundstage and atmosphere...

  8. #48
    Join Date: May 2015

    Location: Greece

    Posts: 244
    I'm Panos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thetiminator View Post
    The secret with subs is having two (massive difference to speed and tone) and turn them down very low...that way they’ll just support the bass below your speakers but more noticeable than the bass is a dramatic change to the soundstage and atmosphere...
    Hi Tim,

    two subs are obviously the way to go. However, as we all know, room modes can appear that amplify or attenuate certain frequencies. Many people try to tackle such room modes by changing the placement of the sub(s), others use room treatment panels. Another option might be PEQ (Parametric EQ) to appropriate shape the sub's output in the frequency domain. Is that so or not?
    System1: Roksan Xerxes original (HiFi Inspire plinth) with OriginLive DC motor + Audiomods Series6 + Ortofon Cadenza Black microridge retipped, ASR Mini Basis Exclusive, Marantz CD6005, LAB12 DAC1 SE+, Hattor BIG passive + active pre, Croft Micro25RSLS + Series7R monoblocks (110W/ea), Harbeth SHL5 Plus 40th Anniv., Falcon LS3/5a, LAB12 Gordian, Belden 8428, Black Cat Red Level Triode, LAB12 Knack MkII

    System 2: Marantz CD6003, Croft SuperMicroII ('R' spec by Croft, Tesla E83CC in phono)+ Series7, Snell Type EII (with bypass caps, new internal wiring, WBT nextgen 0703Cu), Mark Grant HDX1, Atlas Hyper 3.0

  9. #49
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: Middlesex, UK

    Posts: 4,105
    I'm Alex.

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    Some years ago I tried a subwoofer with Chartwell LS3/5a's I found that adding a little extra damping inside the LS3/5a's removed the slight hump in their bass.

    Some may say that modifying the LS3/5a's is sacrilege, but it worked.
    Spendorman

  10. #50
    Join Date: May 2015

    Location: Greece

    Posts: 244
    I'm Panos.

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    Alex, which subwoofer have you used with the chartwells? Were you happy with the overall result?

    Cheers,
    Panos
    Last edited by pankon; 31-01-2020 at 17:38.
    System1: Roksan Xerxes original (HiFi Inspire plinth) with OriginLive DC motor + Audiomods Series6 + Ortofon Cadenza Black microridge retipped, ASR Mini Basis Exclusive, Marantz CD6005, LAB12 DAC1 SE+, Hattor BIG passive + active pre, Croft Micro25RSLS + Series7R monoblocks (110W/ea), Harbeth SHL5 Plus 40th Anniv., Falcon LS3/5a, LAB12 Gordian, Belden 8428, Black Cat Red Level Triode, LAB12 Knack MkII

    System 2: Marantz CD6003, Croft SuperMicroII ('R' spec by Croft, Tesla E83CC in phono)+ Series7, Snell Type EII (with bypass caps, new internal wiring, WBT nextgen 0703Cu), Mark Grant HDX1, Atlas Hyper 3.0

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