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Thread: Best subwoofer for Falcon LS3/5a?

  1. #21
    Join Date: May 2015

    Location: Greece

    Posts: 227
    I'm Panos.

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    Hi Mel,

    Thanks very much for your insightful feedback. It seems that the LS3/5a can indeed be enhanced with the help of a sub, provided sufficient care has been given to integration.

    I am also not looking for huge amounts of bass, just ‘as much’ to fill the missing bottom end.

    I have asked a friend to come over with his equipment and measure the room. I hope we’ll be able to figure out what’s needed first. And we will keep a record of the before and after, so that we can compare.

    Thanks again.
    Last edited by pankon; 17-08-2019 at 14:41.
    System1: Roksan Xerxes original (HiFi Inspire plinth) with OriginLive DC motor + Audiomods Series5 + Denon DL-103R Namiki retipped, Music Maker III, ASR Mini Basis Exclusive, Marantz CD6005, LAB12 DAC1 SE+, Hattor BIG, Croft Micro25RSLS + Series7R monoblocks (110W/ea), Harbeth SHL5 Plus 40th Anniv., Falcon LS3/5a, LAB12 Gordian, Belden 8428, Black Cat Red Level Triode, LAB12 Knack MkII

    System 2: Marantz CD6003, Croft SuperMicroII ('R' spec by Croft, Tesla E83CC in phono)+ Series7, Snell Type EII (with bypass caps, new internal wiring, WBT nextgen 0703Cu), Mark Grant HDX1, Atlas Hyper 3.0

  2. #22
    Join Date: Sep 2018

    Location: London

    Posts: 50
    I'm Howard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherwood View Post
    I bought my Rogers LS3/5a's 40 years ago. Frankly, I have never heard them work well with sub-woofers, even those designed specifically for them. I have always found that a mega powerful amp does more to address their fundamental bass problems. Yes, a sub-woofer will provide a deeper sound but it will not provide a better one!
    I was interested in your comment, can you say a bit more - which amps, how powerful?

    I don’t have Falcon LS3/5A but I have a distant relation, Rogers JR 149s. They sound great for chamber music with a Quad 306. To some extent the midrange and image is so good that you just forget their weaknesses. But I can’t use them for music which where lower frequencies matter more.

    I use a pair of subs very successfully with electrostatics, but I would prefer to try other ways partly because of the difficulty of integration (it took a year of experimentation before I was happy with the ESL subs settings!) and partly because . . . well why not?

  3. #23
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: Notts

    Posts: 2,258
    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandryka View Post
    I was interested in your comment, can you say a bit more - which amps, how powerful?

    I donít have Falcon LS3/5A but I have something similar, Rogers JR 149s. They sound great for chamber music with a Quad 306. To some extent the midrange and image is so good that you just forget their weaknesses. But I canít use them for music which where lower frequencies matter more.

    I use subs very successfully with electrostatics, but I would prefer to try other ways partly because of the difficulty of integration (it took a year of experimentation before I was happy with the ESL subs settings!) and partly because . . . well why not?

    When I bought the Rogers LS3/5a's I first used them with Rogers own A75 MkII amp. This was highly recommended at the time and it did sound pretty good. However, it's limitations became apparent when I paired them with a Rogers Cadet II valve amp. On paper, the Cadet valve integrated was hugely underpowered and should have sounded poor in comparison with the solid state A75. It didn't! In fact, it wiped the floor with the A75. I was told that the high voltage swings with the valve design suited the inefficient LS3/5a's. I found the sound to further improve when I paired them with an Art Audio Quintet power amp. This preserved the improved dynamics of the Cadet but added more weight to the bass and midrange. I then tried a huge home built Mosfet power amp and the bass become so much better controlled. Previously, there was always a danger of the driver "chuffing" when driven hard, bu the extra control of the Mosfet greatly increased bass solidity and control.

    Although your JR149's use the same drivers, they are a not sealed box design so I cannot say that they would respond similarly. However, I am sure they would respond well to a high current solid state design. A couple of years ago I got the Rogers LS3/5a's out of storage and tried them with an Odyssey class A/B power amp and a NuPrime class D power amp. They sounded great with both designs.

  4. #24
    Join Date: Feb 2014

    Location: Indianapolis, Indiana USA

    Posts: 555
    I'm Timothy.

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    Since when were the JR149's not a sealed box design? New one on me...
    Holbo TT-Nag 110-Croft Micro 25 pre-phono/Innuos Zen MK2/LinnenberG Telemann DAC-Preamp/LinnenberG Allegro monoblocs/Duevel Venus/LinnenberG Maestro SE-Senn. HD580
    Equipment on BASE Isolation platforms/DH Labs cabling

  5. #25
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: Middlesex, UK

    Posts: 4,020
    I'm Alex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frazeur1 View Post
    Since when were the JR149's not a sealed box design? New one on me...
    I thought the same, have two pairs of JR149, they are very well sealed.
    Spendorman

  6. #26
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: Middlesex, UK

    Posts: 4,020
    I'm Alex.

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    Just my thoughts, I have vintage Chartwell LS3/5a's, and find them very slightly underdamped, giving a slight bass boost, that is perhaps welcomed in most cases.


    It may be sacrilege, but I have added a little extra damping inside the the cabinets, this tightens up the bass, possibly making adding a good sub-woofer a bit easier.
    Spendorman

  7. #27
    Join Date: May 2015

    Location: Greece

    Posts: 227
    I'm Panos.

    Default So, subwoofer or not? And which?

    Based on the feedback by the forum members, it seems there is no clear consensus about whether a subwoofer could (under circumstances) be a reasonable improvement for the LS3/5a (or not).

    I believe that room integration is key, so I believe that the candidate subwoofer should have as many EQ controls as possible.

    Thanks
    System1: Roksan Xerxes original (HiFi Inspire plinth) with OriginLive DC motor + Audiomods Series5 + Denon DL-103R Namiki retipped, Music Maker III, ASR Mini Basis Exclusive, Marantz CD6005, LAB12 DAC1 SE+, Hattor BIG, Croft Micro25RSLS + Series7R monoblocks (110W/ea), Harbeth SHL5 Plus 40th Anniv., Falcon LS3/5a, LAB12 Gordian, Belden 8428, Black Cat Red Level Triode, LAB12 Knack MkII

    System 2: Marantz CD6003, Croft SuperMicroII ('R' spec by Croft, Tesla E83CC in phono)+ Series7, Snell Type EII (with bypass caps, new internal wiring, WBT nextgen 0703Cu), Mark Grant HDX1, Atlas Hyper 3.0

  8. #28
    Join Date: Jan 2019

    Location: Kent UK

    Posts: 269
    I'm Martin.

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    So what are you getting...?

    I know without a shadow of doubt that Iíd miss the bottom octave and a half on my LS3/5as if I took the sub out.

    I can and do turn it off for late night listening though when the missus goes to bed.




    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  9. #29
    Join Date: May 2015

    Location: Greece

    Posts: 227
    I'm Panos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Discopants View Post
    So what are you getting...?

    I know without a shadow of doubt that I’d miss the bottom octave and a half on my LS3/5as if I took the sub out.

    I can and do turn it off for late night listening though when the missus goes to bed.




    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Hi Martin,
    theoretically, if the subwoofer is fast enough and its controls are sophisticated enough to allow a proper integration with the room and the LS3/5a, I do not see any reason to spoil (but only improve) the great sound of my Falcons (and my Harbeth SHL5 Plus, too; with different settings of course).
    Would you agree?
    System1: Roksan Xerxes original (HiFi Inspire plinth) with OriginLive DC motor + Audiomods Series5 + Denon DL-103R Namiki retipped, Music Maker III, ASR Mini Basis Exclusive, Marantz CD6005, LAB12 DAC1 SE+, Hattor BIG, Croft Micro25RSLS + Series7R monoblocks (110W/ea), Harbeth SHL5 Plus 40th Anniv., Falcon LS3/5a, LAB12 Gordian, Belden 8428, Black Cat Red Level Triode, LAB12 Knack MkII

    System 2: Marantz CD6003, Croft SuperMicroII ('R' spec by Croft, Tesla E83CC in phono)+ Series7, Snell Type EII (with bypass caps, new internal wiring, WBT nextgen 0703Cu), Mark Grant HDX1, Atlas Hyper 3.0

  10. #30
    Join Date: Jan 2019

    Location: Kent UK

    Posts: 269
    I'm Martin.

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    Yes , but there is another critical variable and that is the room. DSP will help but its constrained by the room.

    You have to be prepared to spend a lot of time tuning it to your system and the room.

    Are you going with that Swedish one ?




    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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