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Thread: Analogue tape versus vinyl

  1. #1
    Join Date: Jul 2010

    Location: Cheltenham

    Posts: 982
    I'm Charlie.

    Default Analogue tape versus vinyl

    My master tape collection has been growing steadily over time. This means that I now have quite a few albums on LP and tape. Recently I purchased a production master of Dusty in Memphis. For a bit of fun I compared this 15 IPS master on an Otari MTR12 against my vinyl set up - Platine Verdier with 2 tonearms - Schroeder Reference/Allaerts MC1B and a 1970s vintage Hadccock 228/ JW rebuilt Decca C4E.

    I have a 45 RPM Analog Productions copy of Dusty in Memphis, which allowed me to compare the master tape to 2 cart/tonearm combinations side by side. So which cartridge sounded more like the master tape?

    The Decca won by a long way. The Allaerts sounded lovely - spacious, tonally richer - some might say very attractive. But the Decca sounded much more like the master tape. OK the Decca was narrower and shallower in sound stage, as well as missing some of the harmonics, which gave the tape more texture. But the Decca was pretty close.



    R2R: Studer A820 1/2 inch 2 track; Otari MTR-12 1/4 inch 2 track; Sony APR 5003; Sony APR 5002; Studer A807/II. Vinyl: Platine Verdier Allaerts MC1B/Schroeder Reference & Model 2 Decca C4E/Hadcock 228 TRON Seven Reference phono. Keith Monks MkII RCM Other analogue source: Nakamichi Dragon with ANT4066 mods. Amplification: TRON Meteor preamp TRON Voyager 20B SET power. Speakers: Avantgarde Duo. Digital: computing at last with Prism Sound Lyra 2 A2D converter

  2. #2
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 6,772
    I'm James.

    Default

    Thats an interesting evaluation Charlie. I have long been a fan of the Decca cartridge and your comparison shows it still produces an excellent quality of sound, close to the master tape.

    What aspects of the Decca do you think help achieve this. Speed, dynamics or something else?
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

    Second System : Goldring Lenco GL75 / AT95EX / Pioneer SX590 / Spendor SP2

  3. #3
    Join Date: Mar 2009

    Location: South West-ish, UK

    Posts: 457
    I'm Patrick.

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    I like my Deccas. Maybe the Decca in the Schroeder would be better than the tape ;-)

    Looks like your Decca is tail high, or is that just an illusion? I am currently playing with an SC4E in a Hadcock 242 and wondering if it sounded better before I made it more level.

  4. #4
    Join Date: Jul 2010

    Location: Cheltenham

    Posts: 982
    I'm Charlie.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    What aspects of the Decca do you think help achieve this. Speed, dynamics or something else?
    Speed and dynamics yes - but also the naturalness of the tonal balance. Some might say that the Decca sound dry, but it's job is to replicate the music.
    R2R: Studer A820 1/2 inch 2 track; Otari MTR-12 1/4 inch 2 track; Sony APR 5003; Sony APR 5002; Studer A807/II. Vinyl: Platine Verdier Allaerts MC1B/Schroeder Reference & Model 2 Decca C4E/Hadcock 228 TRON Seven Reference phono. Keith Monks MkII RCM Other analogue source: Nakamichi Dragon with ANT4066 mods. Amplification: TRON Meteor preamp TRON Voyager 20B SET power. Speakers: Avantgarde Duo. Digital: computing at last with Prism Sound Lyra 2 A2D converter

  5. #5
    Join Date: Jul 2010

    Location: Cheltenham

    Posts: 982
    I'm Charlie.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Dixon View Post
    I like my Deccas. Maybe the Decca in the Schroeder would be better than the tape ;-)

    Looks like your Decca is tail high, or is that just an illusion? I am currently playing with an SC4E in a Hadcock 242 and wondering if it sounded better before I made it more level.
    Patrick,

    The angle is just an illusion. The VTA has been adjusted by ear over quite a while and it's a tiny bit tail up (but not very much). The wide angle lens on the iPhone exaggerates it.

    Charlie
    R2R: Studer A820 1/2 inch 2 track; Otari MTR-12 1/4 inch 2 track; Sony APR 5003; Sony APR 5002; Studer A807/II. Vinyl: Platine Verdier Allaerts MC1B/Schroeder Reference & Model 2 Decca C4E/Hadcock 228 TRON Seven Reference phono. Keith Monks MkII RCM Other analogue source: Nakamichi Dragon with ANT4066 mods. Amplification: TRON Meteor preamp TRON Voyager 20B SET power. Speakers: Avantgarde Duo. Digital: computing at last with Prism Sound Lyra 2 A2D converter

  6. #6
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 31,850
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

    Default

    Yes the Mk. IV Deccas were some of the best cartridges Decca made. I have an SC4E, and wouldn't be without it. 'Dusty in Memphis' is a superb recording: a copy of which should be in everyone's collection.
    Barry

  7. #7
    Join Date: Jul 2010

    Location: Cheltenham

    Posts: 982
    I'm Charlie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Yes the Mk. IV Deccas were some of the best cartridges Decca made. I have an SC4E, and wouldn't be without it. 'Dusty in Memphis' is a superb recording: a copy of which should be in everyone's collection.
    Barry, it is indeed a fabulous recording. The Analogue Productions 45 rpm reissue is really excellent. That's why I chose it for the comparison, as I felt that it was about as good a LP pressing, as one can get.
    R2R: Studer A820 1/2 inch 2 track; Otari MTR-12 1/4 inch 2 track; Sony APR 5003; Sony APR 5002; Studer A807/II. Vinyl: Platine Verdier Allaerts MC1B/Schroeder Reference & Model 2 Decca C4E/Hadcock 228 TRON Seven Reference phono. Keith Monks MkII RCM Other analogue source: Nakamichi Dragon with ANT4066 mods. Amplification: TRON Meteor preamp TRON Voyager 20B SET power. Speakers: Avantgarde Duo. Digital: computing at last with Prism Sound Lyra 2 A2D converter

  8. #8
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Norwich

    Posts: 1,064
    I'm Mike.

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    Have just spotted this; more for the mention of 'Dusty in Memphis' being such a superb recording. I have a relatively recent reissue on the 'Grey Men With Beards' label, and I can't play it. Terrible (or non-existing?) s.q., and not a brilliant surface either. Actually, it's simply dull; very dull!

    Now I suspect that it's the crappy label issue and may be done cheaply by sticking a mic. in front of speakers, but I find it hard to equate this with its superb original, or even derivative re-recordings.

  9. #9
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 99,005
    I'm Grant.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Reed View Post
    Have just spotted this; more for the mention of 'Dusty in Memphis' being such a superb recording. I have a relatively recent reissue on the 'Grey Men With Beards' label, and I can't play it. Terrible (or non-existing?) s.q., and not a brilliant surface either. Actually, it's simply dull; very dull!

    Now I suspect that it's the crappy label issue and may be done cheaply by sticking a mic. in front of speakers, but I find it hard to equate this with its superb original, or even derivative re-recordings.
    yup thats the one you dont want... its not great is it..... price wise it should be about £60 for the 45rpm AP version.
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  10. #10
    Join Date: Mar 2017

    Location: West Sūþsēaxe

    Posts: 2,015
    I'm Edward.

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    Assuming it is now out of copyright it would be wonderful if either the tape and/or the 45 RPM album could be digitised.

    I'm listening to the 2002 release via Tidal and although sounding ok I think a fair amount of compression has been applied. Listening to it how it was originally released would be cool.
    Current: [P20] Roon/Tidal > Custom PC> Chevron Paradox NDF16 > Phast Pre > Neuro. 686 > Tannoy Berkley (RFC tweaks)


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