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Thread: HDMI cables are all the same?

  1. #71
    Join Date: Oct 2008

    Location: Glasgowshire

    Posts: 9,656
    I'm Gary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie View Post
    I have tried to engage at a friendly technical level, put forward all the evidence there is but unfortunately, people here do not want to know which is very frustrating. HDMI is a totally different ball game to audio cables and is well understood for it's capabuilitys or lack of. As I have said there is no room for error with this connection, it will not improve picture quality, be it colour, gamma, chroma or anything else. You and a couple of others are saying with my eyes in my room with my system i see a diiference, that is fair enough, what I have shown is there is none and that is an undisputable fact. I am not being a know all, big head, or anything else this is just the way it is.
    Cool.
    AC POWER
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    AMPS
    Meridian 557 power Amp (Modded) / PS Audio BHK Preamp (Modded)
    SPEAKERS
    Wharfedale Evo 4.4
    DAC
    PS Audio Directstream (Modded)
    TURNTABLE
    Pro-Ject X8 balanced output via XLR / Ortofon Quintet Blue cartridge
    PHONOSTAGE
    Pro-Ject DS3 B balanced Input (TT and Phonostage powered by Pro-Ject Power box RS2 linear psu)
    DIGITAL
    OPPO 203 (Modded: Linear PSU, i2s output to Dac) - Roon Endpoint, HDMI input used for all things Streaming/ PS5 /AppleTV ... also good for movies apparently?
    MUSIC PLAYBACK
    Tweaked AP-Linux based Roon Server into Oppo 203 as Roon endpoint
    Ipad Roon Remote.
    Apple Music/ YouTube via AppleTV, fed to Dac via Oppo HDMI input/i2s output to Dac.
    SPEAKER CABLES
    Biwired: Duelund DCA10GA (Bass) Duelund DCA16GA (mid & treble) Duelund 12DCA used as jumpers (On
    "Blackcat Cable" Chris Sommivigo's advice - yup, even with biwire it sounds better - and it does)
    INTERCONNECTS
    All Balanced: Ghost+ recording studio XLR cables

  2. #72
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie View Post
    They know all HDMI cables are the same, and no matter what your eyes may tell you that is the truth of it. That chart I posted earlier is proof of what I am saying.
    Typical objectivist arrogance, which won't be tolerated. Save that blinkered, closed-minded crap for Wigwam, and the like, as it's not welcome here.

    I have a different truth. What you're stating is proof of nothing other than (perhaps) the result of the particular set of circumstances/conditions prevailing at the time of the test, nothing else. It certainly doesn't disprove (to me) what I've found to the contrary, in respect of HDMI cables, in the context of my own system.

    Now, I'm tired of your continual arguing/trolling. Learn to fit in here and respect the fact that it's subjective opinions and practical experience which matter most on AoS, not measurements. I'll help you out by giving you a week's holiday in order to reflect on that!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  3. #73
    Join Date: Oct 2008

    Location: Glasgowshire

    Posts: 9,656
    I'm Gary.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie View Post
    I have tried to engage at a friendly technical level, put forward all the evidence there is but unfortunately, people here do not want to know which is very frustrating. HDMI is a totally different ball game to audio cables and is well understood for it's capabuilitys or lack of. As I have said there is no room for error with this connection, it will not improve picture quality, be it colour, gamma, chroma or anything else. You and a couple of others are saying with my eyes in my room with my system i see a diiference, that is fair enough, what I have shown is there is none and that is an undisputable fact. I am not being a know all, big head, or anything else this is just the way it is. I am not being awkward or nasty or argumentative.

    I suggest and this is only a suggestion some of you join AVForums, there is a wealth of knowledge there that will help you achieve a perfect picture or as near as damm it.

    Here is part one of how to achieve a great picture on your TV as I posted earlier.

    Great video, thanks.
    Been a member of AVFORUMS for longer than I can remember, great friendly place for all things AV.

    Appreciate the recommendation though, and will follow by saying anyone interested in AV should take a look, it's great.
    AC POWER
    Hardwired 10kVA balanced mains powering entire system
    AMPS
    Meridian 557 power Amp (Modded) / PS Audio BHK Preamp (Modded)
    SPEAKERS
    Wharfedale Evo 4.4
    DAC
    PS Audio Directstream (Modded)
    TURNTABLE
    Pro-Ject X8 balanced output via XLR / Ortofon Quintet Blue cartridge
    PHONOSTAGE
    Pro-Ject DS3 B balanced Input (TT and Phonostage powered by Pro-Ject Power box RS2 linear psu)
    DIGITAL
    OPPO 203 (Modded: Linear PSU, i2s output to Dac) - Roon Endpoint, HDMI input used for all things Streaming/ PS5 /AppleTV ... also good for movies apparently?
    MUSIC PLAYBACK
    Tweaked AP-Linux based Roon Server into Oppo 203 as Roon endpoint
    Ipad Roon Remote.
    Apple Music/ YouTube via AppleTV, fed to Dac via Oppo HDMI input/i2s output to Dac.
    SPEAKER CABLES
    Biwired: Duelund DCA10GA (Bass) Duelund DCA16GA (mid & treble) Duelund 12DCA used as jumpers (On
    "Blackcat Cable" Chris Sommivigo's advice - yup, even with biwire it sounds better - and it does)
    INTERCONNECTS
    All Balanced: Ghost+ recording studio XLR cables

  4. #74
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: Down South

    Posts: 2,413
    I'm Neal.

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    Surely HDMI suffers all the same issues as any high frequency twisted pair data bus, crosstalk, NEXT, impedance mismatch, materials, slew rate limiting etc. I can’t see how all HDMI cables are therefore the same especially given the rather loose impedance spec of +/- 15ohms and the MHz frequencies involved.

    It’s a real time interface as well with no error correction (ECC) on the RGB channels with separate clock and no retransmission. A bit like UDP on Ethernet except there is ECC there.

    There must be uncorrectable bit errors before the digital cliff where the cable ceases to work as a transmission bus, correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t believe the encoding scheme is capable of correcting all errors from what I’ve read. I can well believe an on spec. certified cable being an improvement picture wise to an out of spec. or on the ‘edge’ cable.
    Listening in a Foo free Zone...

    Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

  5. #75
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    As usual, Neal. You talk a lot of sense - and from someone with more than a tenuous grasp on the technicalities of this subject.

    That's the problem with rigid black and white thinking, like Barry's, and those of the 'experts' he lauds: it neglects to address the grey areas!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  6. #76
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

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    I'm Grant.

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    It's a bit like wearing belt and braces. If you can't trust your pants where are you.

    Use the senses god or nature gave you.. Trust them.. They work better than anything man can make.
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  7. #77
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Amen on that, bro!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  8. #78
    Join Date: May 2017

    Location: newcastle upon tyne

    Posts: 230
    I'm barry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    As usual, Neal. You talk a lot of sense - and from someone with more than a tenuous grasp on the technicalities of this subject.

    That's the problem with rigid black and white thinking, like Barry's, and those of the 'experts' he lauds: it neglects to address the grey areas!

    Marco.
    Marco you have continuously likened Audio to Video showing your lack of knowledge on the subject of video. There are no grey areas in the laws of physics as the colour spectrum graph (CIE chart) shows. This is not open to debate or subject opinion but again the laws of Physics ..........this you can change or argue the toss over.

  9. #79
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Did your recent holiday, and the reasons why it was given, teach you nothing?

    The laws of physics do not conclusively disprove the fact that I can hear (and see) very clear and repeatable differences with various types of HDMI cables in my home-cinema system, as that's what my eyes and ears tell me. Picture quality in particular is notably improved, in terms of colour definition, detail and naturalness, with the best cables (and that doesn't necessarily need to mean expensive).

    So give this up, Barry, unless you want another holiday - this time for MUCH longer! Any more posts like that, or any backchat over my warning, will guarantee it. Understand and accept that, in discussions such as this, AoS is an ultimately 'trust your senses over science', subjectivist forum, and if you don't like that, then find somewhere else better suited for your needs.

    Marco.

  10. #80
    Join Date: May 2017

    Location: newcastle upon tyne

    Posts: 230
    I'm barry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Did your recent holiday, and the reasons why it was given, teach you nothing?

    The laws of physics do not conclusively disprove the fact that I can hear (and see) very clear and repeatable differences with various types of HDMI cables in my home-cinema system, as that's what my eyes and ears tell me. Picture quality in particular is notably improved, in terms of colour definition, detail and naturalness, with the best cables (and that doesn't necessarily need to mean expensive).

    So give this up, Barry, unless you want another holiday - this time for MUCH longer! Any more posts like that, or any backchat over my warning, will guarantee it. Understand and accept that, in discussions such as this, AoS is an ultimately 'trust your senses over science', subjectivist forum, and if you don't like that, then find somewhere else better suited for your needs.

    Marco.
    So a case of agree with me or I will ban you, even though I have given you indisputable evidence and scientific fact to the contrary of your wrong opinion.

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