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Thread: Footie season 2019/2020

  1. #321
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

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    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default Some thoughts on the Scotland crisis and last night's game...

    Quote Originally Posted by struth View Post
    Only thing of note was I got score about right. I did say 3 or 4nil.

    Poor display overall since Clarke came In. Maybe even worse than before. Certainly no better.
    Players have to take as much flak as they have not performed across the board.
    Agreed, although Christie was excellent and not only worked his socks off, but created some problems for the Belgians with his direct and energetic style of play, winning a few corners and free kicks in the process, which had Griffiths been on the park. instead of Snodgrass, we might've scored from!

    Mulgrew was also his usual steady self, and always a threat at set pieces, and Marshall did ok and could've done nothing to prevent any of the goals. Plus, Armstrong also made an impact when he came on, nearly setting up a goal with his first few touches.. So the Celtic (or ex-Celtic) contingent there performed ok. However, both Forrest and McGregor are currently underperforming in a Scotland shirt.

    They combined really well before against Cyprus, etc, to win us the play-off place, which is now our only chance of qualifying for the Euros, but you wonder that, given the demanding season (and all the important games) that lie ahead for them for Celtic, are they really pushing themselves fully for Scotland? I think that both have recently been playing within themselves and don't want to risk injury. Could that also be the case with the likes of Robertson and McTominay, as they too have bigger fish to fry with Liverpool and Man Utd respectively.

    And that's one of the problems we now face as a nation... In the lowly position we currently find ourselves in, is it now the case that for our top players, the attraction of pulling on a Scotland shirt just isn't the same as it once was, before the dawn of Champions League football, with the huge rewards that brings, and when Scotland used to qualify for major tournaments and so players then had something worth playing for, and as such is viewed as an 'inconvenience'?

    No-one would admit that of course, but in my view that's as much a part of the problem we currently face, as the failings of any of the recent managers we've had. Because regardless of the manager, it's largely the same group of players delivering the same poor performances, and subsequent bad results, and for me that's no coincidence. We have to address, and try and fix, the malaise that's been present in our national squad for a very long time.

    Therefore, for me, we need to look at the players selected, perhaps by starting to cap good Scottish players (or those eligible to play for Scotland), capable of doing a job in certain positions, who aren't involved in the demands of playing for Celtic, Rangers, Liverpool or Man Utd, and have something to prove?

    Perhaps they would have more fire in their bellies, as once was the case, when pulling on a Scotland shirt? Plus, it might give a kick up the arse to the 'superstars' (I use that description entirely flippantly), when they're being dropped for someone they'd consider as their inferior... Because, no matter how good the manager is, you're not going to win games when the hearts of your key players aren't in it.

    The other problem we have currently, is our paucity of good strikers, which we once had in abundance, and in that respect, the Scotland team has become a victim of the fact that the main strikers at Rangers and Celtic, Griffiths aside, are all foreign - and in the case of Griffiths, he's not getting enough game-time for that reason [kept out the team by Edouard], so can't realistically be selected for Scotland, although he should be ahead of Naismith, who's played even less for Hearts!! So Clarke's decision there baffles me

    I have little doubt that, even though he's not being playing much for Celtic, Griffiths would've have made an impact in the two games against Russia and Belgium. His delivery from set pieces alone would've virtually guaranteed that. The other thing is that when your team doesn't have a major threat up front, or someone who can lead the line and hold the ball up well on his own, it puts added pressure on the midfield and defence, as they're constantly under pressure.

    It goes back to the old saying of 'the best form of defence is attack' - a truism because, if you've got the ball and are doing something positive with it, then the opposition aren't!

    We also badly lack leadership on the pitch, and in that respect are hugely missing Scott Brown's influence. There are too many players currently in the Scotland squad who don't have his type of desire or winning mentality, or who are willing to roll up their sleeves and get stuck in. That situation needs addressing, first and foremost.

    In that respect, if we had another 10 Ryan Christies, with his type of skill and endeavour in every position, we'd have no problems!

    However, for the striking problem to change, our top clubs need to bring more good players through their ranks, and not just go out and spend millions of pounds on foreigners - but then we go back to the problem of the pressure that the likes of Rangers are Celtic are under to perform well in Europe and win every domestic game, and so instant success is mandatory. It's a vicious circle, but unless something fundamental is done about it, then internationally, Scotland will continue to be a joke for years to come....

    Marco.

  2. #322
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    Your thoughts, chaps?

    Marco.

  3. #323
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

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    I'm Grant.

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    so basically all the Celtic/ex celtic guys were great(bar 2 who are off form) the rest are shit.....that it in summary
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    FIIO K7 BT, M11 PLUS, BTR7, KA5 - OPPO BDP-103D - PANASONIC UB450 - PANASONIC 4K ULTRA HD TV - PIXEL 6 - AVANTREE LR BLUETOOTH - 2* X600 SOUNDCORE - HEADPHONES INCLUDE, FIIO, NURAPHONES', FOCAL, OPPO, BOSE, CAMBRIDGE, BOWER & WILKINS, DEVIALET, MARSHALL, SONY, MITCHELL & JOHNSTON - 2*ZBOOK'S- MERCURY BD ROM, ROON, QOBUZ, TIDAL, PLEX, CYBERLINK, JRIVER - MULTI HDD'S -

    Oh my god! There's nothing wrong with the bidet is there?

    “Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test. It is the glory of Lincoln that, having almost absolute power, he never abused it, except on the side of mercy".

    “You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”

    "You don't have free will. You have the appearance of free will.”

    “There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!”


    ***SMILE, BE HAPPY***

  4. #324
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 99,005
    I'm Grant.

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    Not sure there is a solution to Scotland. Our mentality seems to be lacking(as is our ability).. Many countries has surpassed us by being better TEAMS, with spirit. We dont have the Billy Bremner wee naf types we used to produce. Who was the last Scotland player toboss a game against a big team?
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    FIIO K7 BT, M11 PLUS, BTR7, KA5 - OPPO BDP-103D - PANASONIC UB450 - PANASONIC 4K ULTRA HD TV - PIXEL 6 - AVANTREE LR BLUETOOTH - 2* X600 SOUNDCORE - HEADPHONES INCLUDE, FIIO, NURAPHONES', FOCAL, OPPO, BOSE, CAMBRIDGE, BOWER & WILKINS, DEVIALET, MARSHALL, SONY, MITCHELL & JOHNSTON - 2*ZBOOK'S- MERCURY BD ROM, ROON, QOBUZ, TIDAL, PLEX, CYBERLINK, JRIVER - MULTI HDD'S -

    Oh my god! There's nothing wrong with the bidet is there?

    “Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test. It is the glory of Lincoln that, having almost absolute power, he never abused it, except on the side of mercy".

    “You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”

    "You don't have free will. You have the appearance of free will.”

    “There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!”


    ***SMILE, BE HAPPY***

  5. #325
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 99,005
    I'm Grant.

    Default

    world cup 1978 squad.

    12 Jim Blyth [England] Coventry City 02/02/1955
    20 Bobby Clark [Scotland] Aberdeen FC 26/09/1945
    1 Alan Rough [Scotland] Partick Thistle 25/11/1951
    Defender
    4 Martin Buchan [England] Manchester United 06/03/1949
    22 Kenny Burns [England] Nottingham Forest 23/09/1953
    3 Willie Donachie [England] Manchester City 05/10/1951
    14 Tom Forsyth [Scotland] Rangers FC 23/01/1949
    2 Sandy Jardine [Scotland] Rangers FC 31/12/1948
    13 Stuart Kennedy [Scotland] Aberdeen FC 31/05/1953
    5 Gordon McQueen [England] Manchester United 26/06/1952
    Midfielder
    15 Archie Gemmill [England] Nottingham Forest 24/03/1947
    21 Joe Harper [Scotland] Aberdeen FC 11/01/1948
    10 Asa Hartford [England] Manchester City 24/10/1950
    16 Lou Macari [England] Manchester United 04/06/1949
    7 Don Masson [England] Derby County 26/08/1946
    6 Bruce Rioch [England] Derby County 06/09/1947
    19 John Robertson [England] Nottingham Forest 20/01/1953
    18 Graeme Souness [England] Liverpool FC 06/05/1953
    Forward
    8 Kenny Dalglish [England] Liverpool FC 04/03/1951
    11 Willie Johnston [England] West Bromwich Albion 19/12/1946
    17 Derek Johnstone [Scotland] Rangers FC 04/11/1953
    9 Joe Jordan [England] Manchester United.

    we dont have players like that now, and that wasnt as good as the earlier ones
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    FIIO K7 BT, M11 PLUS, BTR7, KA5 - OPPO BDP-103D - PANASONIC UB450 - PANASONIC 4K ULTRA HD TV - PIXEL 6 - AVANTREE LR BLUETOOTH - 2* X600 SOUNDCORE - HEADPHONES INCLUDE, FIIO, NURAPHONES', FOCAL, OPPO, BOSE, CAMBRIDGE, BOWER & WILKINS, DEVIALET, MARSHALL, SONY, MITCHELL & JOHNSTON - 2*ZBOOK'S- MERCURY BD ROM, ROON, QOBUZ, TIDAL, PLEX, CYBERLINK, JRIVER - MULTI HDD'S -

    Oh my god! There's nothing wrong with the bidet is there?

    “Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test. It is the glory of Lincoln that, having almost absolute power, he never abused it, except on the side of mercy".

    “You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”

    "You don't have free will. You have the appearance of free will.”

    “There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!”


    ***SMILE, BE HAPPY***

  6. #326
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by struth View Post
    so basically all the Celtic/ex celtic guys were great(bar 2 who are off form) the rest are shit.....that it in summary
    Lol, not quite.. Trust your blue-nosed bias to see it that way! Did you miss my (entirely justified) criticism of Forrest and McGregor?

    However, it's no secret that some of Scotland's best recent performances were achieved when the team was filled with motivated, in-form Celtic players. That's undeniable, as the results they achieved speak for themselves. Plus, Celtic have been head and shoulders the best team in Scotland, for the last 8 years, so it's only natural that many of their players should be selected for the international team.

    Therefore, it's always a good idea to select quality players who are used to playing together domestically, and understand each other's game, regardless of which team it is they play for!

    More importantly, what did you think of the rest of the points I made, specifically about capping more players, who could do a good job, but don't have the demands of playing for the likes of Liverpool or Man Utd?

    For me, aside from the fact that they can't play the same style of football for the national team as they do at club level, and yes that's significant, it's no 'accident' that the likes of Robertson and McTominay aren't the same players for Scotland. And others come under that category.

    Marco.

  7. #327
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 99,005
    I'm Grant.

    Default

    will also say that the national team and national identity that used to go with it for players isnt there any more; and yes the money they earn will be a factor, but not the only one.. its a bit of a poison chalice for players now too
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    FIIO K7 BT, M11 PLUS, BTR7, KA5 - OPPO BDP-103D - PANASONIC UB450 - PANASONIC 4K ULTRA HD TV - PIXEL 6 - AVANTREE LR BLUETOOTH - 2* X600 SOUNDCORE - HEADPHONES INCLUDE, FIIO, NURAPHONES', FOCAL, OPPO, BOSE, CAMBRIDGE, BOWER & WILKINS, DEVIALET, MARSHALL, SONY, MITCHELL & JOHNSTON - 2*ZBOOK'S- MERCURY BD ROM, ROON, QOBUZ, TIDAL, PLEX, CYBERLINK, JRIVER - MULTI HDD'S -

    Oh my god! There's nothing wrong with the bidet is there?

    “Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test. It is the glory of Lincoln that, having almost absolute power, he never abused it, except on the side of mercy".

    “You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”

    "You don't have free will. You have the appearance of free will.”

    “There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!”


    ***SMILE, BE HAPPY***

  8. #328
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by struth View Post
    Not sure there is a solution to Scotland. Our mentality seems to be lacking(as is our ability).. Many countries has surpassed us by being better TEAMS, with spirit.
    Which is why I say give some of the good Scottish players in the rest of the SPL (and English leagues) a chance, who don't have the demands of playing for the really big clubs, and may have something to offer and prove to people?

    The fact is, if you don't have to worry about Champions League or Europa Cup games, etc, or winning every match, as is the case at the biggest clubs, then outside of playing once a week for your club team (excluding domestic cup competitions), you can devote all of your energies to international matches.

    That could certainly make a difference to creating the SPIRIT you mention. Quite simply, you can't have spirit if you're too worried about injuring yourself, for being able to play arguably more important games for your club!

    But any such players brought in would have to be good enough, read as at least able to make us more organised and harder to beat. That's our BIGGEST problem/failing at the moment. Forget silky football; we're too much of a soft touch, which is the worst thing of all, considering the type of players we've had in the past, some of whom you've just listed!

    The answer to your question about when we last 'bossed' a big team, it would've been our performances against France and Italy, during the Euros in 2007, with the likes of James McFadden. Those were the last days of a proper Scotland team, which had not only skill, but spirit and endeavour. You don't need to go back to the 70s to find a good Scotland team, although unlike back then, we certainly no longer have any world-class players.

    Scotland team in France 2007:

    Gordon, Hutton, McManus, Weir, Alexander, McCulloch, Ferguson, Fletcher (Pearson 26), Brown, Hartley, McFadden.

    A team packed full, not only of skill, but most importantly LEADERS, WINNERS/fighters [both on the pitch and in the dressing room], who had a steely determination not to lose at any cost, and crucially who WANTED to give, and GAVE their all for Scotland, particularly those I've highlighted! And which formed the beating heart of the team. *That* is what we simply don't have now, but which I don't believe doesn't exist or can't be nurtured.

    Also in 2013, against England at Wembley... The 3-2 game, and with two spectacular free-kicks scored by YOU KNOW WHO!

    Marco.

  9. #329
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: Valley of the Hazels

    Posts: 9,139
    I'm AMusicFanNotAnAudiophile.

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    I didn't see the game, but from what I've read Kevin de Bruyne had one of those games.
    Set up three goals and got for himself.
    When he's like that it will be extremely difficult to play against any side he's a part of.
    His vision and pinpoint accurate passes and crosses are a nightmare to defend against.
    One man doesn't make a team, but any team with a player of KdB's standing will get opportunities.

    We (City) missed him for big chunks of last season, but somehow managed not to lose it completely.
    We coped.

    Don't beat yourselves up over last night
    Chris



    Common sense isn't anymore!

  10. #330
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
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    Points taken, Chris, and I agree, although the problems we have unfortunately go much deeper and were also evident against Russia, plus in other games before it.

    Anyway, could you please answer this post (319) :https://theartofsound.net/forum/show...60#post1120860

    This'll be the THIRD time I've asked!

    Marco.

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