Quads & Amps. . .

[Opti-cal]

Hi all, I'm considering having a bit of a change around in my system.

Currently running a Ming Da KT88 push pull amplifier driving Quad 63's. It's a nice match and does everything quite well. Why am I changing? Well if I had to be critical of my system I feel I'm possibly missing some dynamics and overall "meat" in the sound. The Ming Da is 35wpc and does low level detail extremely well, as do the Quads.

Yes its a little under-powered to drive them properly I know, but my room is relatively small and listening levels are not particulary high.

Vinyl through it sounds fantastic but sometimes my digital setup sounds a bit lean. Although that's probably just my vinyl vs digital preference.

I've heard some people are running Class D mono's successfully with Quads although I imagine the sound would be completely different. I'm thinking of trying some Temple Audio mono's as the testimonials are very encouraging.

I run a Musical Paradise "hybrid" Class D amp with a tube pre-stage in my second system and its lovely I have to say. Although it is underpowered and ultimately unexciting with the Quads.

I'm also thinking of swapping back in my Quad 57's as they have been completely refurbished by Quad and I haven't even taken them out of the boxes except to test them . . . I know I'm errr . . . . fairly mental. Unlikely to give me the improved dynamics either!

In addition to that I have a rather special 300b PSET (parallel SET) amp on the way which I have a sneaking suspicion will go extremely nicely with the 57's. Output is around 20w I believe so probably a bit low for the 63's.

Plus I have a mint refurbished and very slightly tweaked Quad 303 to try out.

Just looking for any experiences with similar equipment and suggestions as to what may go well together or be an improvement.

Cheers everyone.

Chris

[hifinutt]

maybe get fire bottle to soup up your ming da ??

https://theartofsound.net/forum/show...highlight=ming

[Opti-cal]

maybe get fire bottle to soup up your ming da ??

https://theartofsound.net/forum/show...highlight=ming

Nice, that looks very interesting thanks Phil.

Alan just did a number on a phono stage for me actually. No reason to think the results won't be just as good.

Cheers

[Firebottle]

Interesting post Chris. I have some experience with some of the above gear.

A couple of questions come to mind, what is the output power of your Musical Paradise class D? What are you thinking you need to drive the ESL63's?
They are rated at 100W and you have 35W on tap, that would only be a few dB louder at full volume. It is surprising how low the power level is at normal listening levels.

I have a 100W (8 ohm) class D that I sometimes use with the ESL57's, though I doubt it would give that output into the nominal 15 ohm impedance of the 57's. It is based on the B&O Icepower modules and surprisingly gave a less dry sound compared to NCore modules at NEBO10, though into conventional speakers.

The Ming Da SE is a match made in heaven with the 57's, it gives more 'body' than any other amp I have tried. The output into 15 ohms is only 10W but it doesn't lack dynamics.
I use a sub, a REL Stadium copy, but crossed over at a low 40Hz.

[Opti-cal]

Interesting post Chris. I have some experience with some of the above gear.

A couple of questions come to mind, what is the output power of your Musical Paradise class D? What are you thinking you need to drive the ESL63's?
They are rated at 100W and you have 35W on tap, that would only be a few dB louder at full volume. It is surprising how low the power level is at normal listening levels.

I have a 100W (8 ohm) class D that I sometimes use with the ESL57's, though I doubt it would give that output into the nominal 15 ohm impedance of the 57's. It is based on the B&O Icepower modules and surprisingly gave a less dry sound compared to NCore modules at NEBO10, though into conventional speakers.

The Ming Da SE is a match made in heaven with the 57's, it gives more 'body' than any other amp I have tried. The output into 15 ohms is only 10W but it doesn't lack dynamics.
I use a sub, a REL Stadium copy, but crossed over at a low 40Hz.

Interesting indeed, maybe I am mistaking a lack in dynamics for a mis-match somewhere else in the chain. As I say its not a bad sound at all its spellbinding most of the time.

I only had the 63's in place while the 57's were being refurbished but I have such a nice sound with the 63's that I just haven't got around to swapping them back in. The Ming Da came after the 57's went away to Quad (it was a long arduous process to be honest) but I haven't tried the 57's with the Ming Da. I think this will have to be done given your appraisal!

The Class D is 40w output but with some fairly efficient speakers 90-94db it sounds like more. The Temple Audio's I mentioned are 70w but with the "supercharger" I think this rises to 100 or so. I was always wary of over-driving the 57's but in reality it seems like its not a huge issue.

With the Quads I always use 16ohm taps where available as I feel it controls the bass much better.

I use REL's also but little T3's. I have them set very low both in crossover and volume just to add a bit below 60Hz or so.

Do you think you could do much for the Ming Da?

I have a couple of really nice pre-amps were the Ming Da to be converted to a "power" amp only?

Thanks for your input.

[Opti-cal]

Just to add I quite like the idea of having suitable Class D's to drive the quads. Seeing as the Quads are on all the time it makes sense for their amplification to be also.

That way there is no warm-up period which I have found to make a significant difference with class A (especially tube) equipment. I don't like the idea of leaving tubes on all the time.

However I'm not sure if I can replicate (enough of) the sound from a class A tube driven amplifier . . . .

[Firebottle]

I don't have a 16 ohm tap unfortunately.

I bypassed the (frankly - poor) volume control in the Ming Da to make it power amp only and gained the clarity back that I had achieved when substituting a quality stepped attenuator into the preamp.

I also have the clamp boards fitted to my 57's to prevent damage with high powers.

[Opti-cal]

I don't have a 16 ohm tap unfortunately.

I bypassed the (frankly - poor) volume control in the Ming Da to make it power amp only and gained the clarity back that I had achieved when substituting a quality stepped attenuator into the preamp.

I also have the clamp boards fitted to my 57's to prevent damage with high powers.

Leaning towards trying the 57's with the Ming Da, hoping the synergy you experienced may also be present it the older models . . . .

Not having heard the 57's for a good few months I reckon I'll simply fall for them all over again to be honest. They had a profound effect on me when I first chanced on a pair 3 pairs ago!

I read the one you were using was in UL mode Alan. I've always left mine in triode mode as I've preferred it but maybe it will add some dynamics into the mix. Silly, but I've never tried it with the Quads . . . also raises the output to 50w I believe. It's just triode mode sounded great so I left it as was!

[Firebottle]

I read the one you were using was in UL mode Alan.

Yes it is but it is Single Ended pentode in UL, rather than a push-pull with the option.. There isn't a selection to choose a triode connection.