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Thread: An insightful look at today's music industry

  1. #1
    Join Date: Sep 2013

    Location: North Island New Zealand

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    I'm Chris.

    Default An insightful look at today's music industry

    I was impressed with the effort put in to this video, explaining similarly as Joni Mitchell sings in her song "Free Man in Paris"
    "Stoking the star-maker machinery Behind the popular song "
    https://youtu.be/oVME_l4IwII

    Of course there are many labels like ECM and other artists heading quite correctly and happily, ( thank goodness ) in the opposite direction.
    Here is one, to compare to having just listened to the first video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w4Iw7RCKUI

  2. #2
    Join Date: Mar 2012

    Location: West Yorkshire

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    I'm Bruce.

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    Some good points but in many ways rather over-simplified.

    He tries to make a case for brainwashing, through blanketing the market with a song. But that’s what record companies have done from the beginning. They would pay to get their songs played, and played more often in key radio stations across the nation. You’d turn on the radio in the 70’s, 80’s, 90’s and knew that within 20 minutes you’d hear at least three of the songs that record companies meant to be hits. Often most of the songs played fit that category.

    Someone runs a language analyser for complexity and see a decline in the last 10 years. Yet, I can find a whole lot of hit songs from the 60's that are just as mindless and simple, including a lot of stuff from the Beatles. There were a few record label song writers that dominated the pop charts for decades.

    Drum machines and synthesizers have been competing with sessions musicians and their instruments for at least 40 years.

    There are new issues. Loudness. Pitch correction. Lables issues vs self-publishing issues. But many of the issues you mentioned have been around for over 50 years, just updated to today’s technology.
    Bruce

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  3. #3
    Join Date: Mar 2012

    Location: West Yorkshire

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    I'm Bruce.

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    I didn't see anything about Joni Mitchell in that link. Did you link to the right video?
    Bruce

    Theories are not so much answers as questions, to be supported or undermined by experience & testing.

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  4. #4
    Join Date: Sep 2013

    Location: North Island New Zealand

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    I'm Chris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brucew268 View Post
    Some good points but in many ways rather over-simplified.

    He tries to make a case for brainwashing, through blanketing the market with a song. But thatís what record companies have done from the beginning. They would pay to get their songs played, and played more often in key radio stations across the nation. Youíd turn on the radio in the 70ís, 80ís, 90ís and knew that within 20 minutes youíd hear at least three of the songs that record companies meant to be hits. Often most of the songs played fit that category.

    Someone runs a language analyser for complexity and see a decline in the last 10 years. Yet, I can find a whole lot of hit songs from the 60's that are just as mindless and simple, including a lot of stuff from the Beatles. There were a few record label song writers that dominated the pop charts for decades.

    Drum machines and synthesizers have been competing with sessions musicians and their instruments for at least 40 years.

    There are new issues. Loudness. Pitch correction. Lables issues vs self-publishing issues. But many of the issues you mentioned have been around for over 50 years, just updated to todayís technology.
    A great reply there, and needing further exploration. If we think of a band like Led Zeppelin, commencing instead in 2019, is it likely they would now attain the worldwide success and recognition they achieved ? Indeed efforts they made to attain distribution under their own label were rejected by major record companies, then needing distribution by their former label .https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Records Led Zeppelin I think would still achieve success if starting today, but would do so with their own label.

    The Beatles were rejected by Decca , which leads to thinking did Decca actually make the right decision, as awkward as that sounds as we might not have had
    the many songs which sound the same. Then again the Beatles had some great moments that are hard to ignore.

    The reference to Joni Mitchell in Free man in Paris written about David Geffen, was simply to show Joni capturing in music actual comment about the record industry Likewise The Who with their reference to the four minute song in "Won't get Fooled again " over 8 minutes long. and many others like Hendrix and Frank Zappa were continually battling the ideology behind the record industry.

    An examination of commercial radio stations show record labels have total control over their output, either by direct ownership or restrictive licencing.

    So the age of exploring music, rather than being told what to listen to, is needed.
    Here a few spots to do that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...ecords_artists
    http://freemusicarchive.org/curator/Creative_Commons/

  5. #5
    Join Date: Apr 2015

    Location: Central Virginia

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    I'm Russell.

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    Thatís a very interesting video, and Iím going to agree with a lot of it. But, is music dumbing down its listeners through brain washing? Or is the public at large just dumber? Maybe a bit of both?

    Before ever seeing this video Iíve held the opinion that the music industry has gone the way it has to minimize risk, just as this video was saying. Back in the 60ís, the music industry found talent, and made their records, and profited massively, and paid the artists next to nothing! Anyone ever see, ďBehind the MusicĒ? The episode for the Mamaís and the Papaís was telling, they got stoned and missed the meeting to renew their contract, and the next day they were thrown out of their homes, no car, nothing! It all belonged to the company.

    In comes Led Zeppelin, with a contract in hand. They knew they would be huge! And wanted creative control, gate fold album covers, and a larger percentage of the take. Every studio rejected it, laughed in their faces! Until Atlantic said, why not? If they are indeed huge, weíll cash in! And they did. Except after a few albums, Zeppelin took their profits and created their own label! Cut the ďManĒ, right out of the cash flow. It became the norm, better contracts were demanded by talent, and this same scenario happened again and again, and the artists got so wealthy the studio lost control of them.

    And thatís what itís all about, control. The record companies do not want this to happen again. They take talentless hacks and prop them up with backup dancers, vocal effects, and songs written for them. Disney will beat the youngsters over the head with some new sexy artist, and as soon as they turn 20, they jerk the rug out from under them, and start with a new, younger artist. They actively do not want anyone with real talent! Because those people can get too big, and they can loose control of them. And they donít want people buying records from anyone that is not on their payroll.

    Anyway, those were my thoughts going way back, and this video actually hits on many of these ideas, plus a lot more. Statistics show that the average public is getting dumber, no doubt this is on purpose, to make them easier to control. Next time you hear the government is trying to enforce some blatantly stupid rule, who do you see rallying in favor of it? A crowd so dumb they couldnít pour piss out of a boot if the directions were written on the heel. Iíve got my theories on why this is happening too, but thatís not in the scope of this thread.

    Russell

  6. #6
    Join Date: Apr 2017

    Location: Manningtree, Essex

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    I'm Tony.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brucew268 View Post
    Some good points but in many ways rather over-simplified.

    He tries to make a case for brainwashing, through blanketing the market with a song. But thatís what record companies have done from the beginning. They would pay to get their songs played, and played more often in key radio stations across the nation. Youíd turn on the radio in the 70ís, 80ís, 90ís and knew that within 20 minutes youíd hear at least three of the songs that record companies meant to be hits. Often most of the songs played fit that category.

    Someone runs a language analyser for complexity and see a decline in the last 10 years. Yet, I can find a whole lot of hit songs from the 60's that are just as mindless and simple, including a lot of stuff from the Beatles. There were a few record label song writers that dominated the pop charts for decades.

    Drum machines and synthesizers have been competing with sessions musicians and their instruments for at least 40 years.

    There are new issues. Loudness. Pitch correction. Lables issues vs self-publishing issues. But many of the issues you mentioned have been around for over 50 years, just updated to todayís technology.
    What he said!


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  7. #7
    Join Date: Apr 2015

    Location: Central Virginia

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    I'm Russell.

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    I saw a video on YouTube yesterday to the effect that modern music is slack, the elder gentleman in the video explained that the same 4 cord progression can be found in almost all new songs!

    So, I couldnít help but echo a bit of what weíve said here on this thread, how music through the 60ís, 70ís and 80ís has more style, and the musicians more talent. Etc.

    I was flooded with a bunch of negative comments! Apparently the youth of today donít like to hear it! And this one guy opened with, ďthere are better song writers today than the BeatlesĒ, and I knew it was a lost cause. If they honestly believe that, there is no hope for the future of music.

    Russell

  8. #8
    Join Date: Jun 2010

    Location: Bucharest

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    I'm Geoff.

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    I was told that the music I liked was rubbish. My parents were told that the music they liked was rubbish. We were told it by the older generation who really believed that music was better in 'their day'. It is, and always has been, absolute nonsense and the domain of a tartan rug brigade of barley sugar sucking nostaligics who have no intention of swaying from their view, regardless of what they hear.

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  9. #9
    Join Date: Apr 2012

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    Perhaps it's just that a lot of people really do like rubbish music?

    From what I've seen of some music choices here, I think that impression could be true!
    "when common sense, logic and plausibility are excluded. All that remain are foolishness and lies"

  10. #10
    Join Date: Feb 2013

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    I'm Grant.

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    overall, and barring the stuff that aint really music, then standards are still fairly high. but there is some bloody awful stuff around these days too. the bad stuff has never been worse, but the good stuff is excellent
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ

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