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Thread: Upgrade or just spending

  1. #11
    Join Date: Sep 2018

    Location: Estonia

    Posts: 29
    I'm Veiko.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebottle View Post
    I totally agree with this statement

    @Sansiiro, apologies for implying (or rather stating) that the 0.08% applies at 65W, that was my error.
    The 1KHz specification is usually stated as a 'common reference' and at 1W to establish a base line distortion figure.

    Being the same manufacturer the circuit design is almost certainly very similar, with a greater supply voltage in the receiver to enable 100W into 6 ohms.
    Thanks, that makes more sense.
    I also hope the power difference is not so big, since while the receiver is 100W for 6 ohm,
    the amp is 65W for 8 ohm, which again makes a bit more for 6 ohm!

    Lawrence, I agree with your sentiment, for Onkyos defense I can say the TX 8220 is a stereo receiver.

    Having heard no-one to see big difference I might opt for 100 eur more and a NAD C316BEE V2.
    The problem, it only sports 45 W, which might not work with elac debut B6, which only have 87db sensitivity.
    My room is about 28 m2. I also have heard that this 45W is somewhat modestly rated, meaning that it might
    well sound a lot more. Hopefully I get a chance to listen to it at local Hi-Fi store, though for now they said
    they can not offer me that opportunity.
    So any thoughts on this NAD celebrity (?) would be highly welcome!

  2. #12
    Join Date: Jun 2014

    Location: Chorley Lancs

    Posts: 4,268
    I'm Steve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sansiiro View Post
    Thanks, that makes more sense.
    I also hope the power difference is not so big, since while the receiver is 100W for 6 ohm,
    the amp is 65W for 8 ohm, which again makes a bit more for 6 ohm!

    Lawrence, I agree with your sentiment, for Onkyos defense I can say the TX 8220 is a stereo receiver.

    Having heard no-one to see big difference I might opt for 100 eur more and a NAD C316BEE V2.
    The problem, it only sports 45 W, which might not work with elac debut B6, which only have 87db sensitivity.
    My room is about 28 m2. I also have heard that this 45W is somewhat modestly rated, meaning that it might
    well sound a lot more. Hopefully I get a chance to listen to it at local Hi-Fi store, though for now they said
    they can not offer me that opportunity.
    So any thoughts on this NAD celebrity (?) would be highly welcome!
    Don't know about current NAD stuff, but their 3020 integrated, which was launched in the late 70's had a lot more welly than their quoted 20 wpc suggested, so the numbers don't tell the whole story. If possible get a home trial, or take your speakers along with you.

    My mate bought a 3020 in about 1982, and he still uses it.
    Excuse me, are you the Judean People's Front?

    T/T: Inspire Monarch, X200 tonearm, Ortofon 2M Black. Phono: Yaqin MS-22B CD: Densen Beat B400 Plus; Headphone/pre: Myryad Z40; Amp: Audion Silver Night 300b stereo
    Speakers: Zu Omen Def. Atlas Equator interconnects, Atlas Hyper 3.0 speaker cables

    T'other system:
    Echo Dot, Amptastic Mini-1, Celestion 5's, BK XLS-200 DF

    A/V:
    Panasonic 42" plasma, Panasonic Blu Ray, Sony a/v amp, MA Radius speakers, REL Storm sub

  3. #13
    Join Date: Oct 2014

    Location: Surrey

    Posts: 186
    I'm Graham.

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    Hi,
    I agree that swapping a budget onkyo receiver for a budget onkyo 2 channel amp is unlikely to make much difference. However swapping for another budget amp also sounds like spending money for little discernable improvement.
    If your budget is limited, I would recommend looking second hand. If it doesn't work out you can always sell it for little loss.

  4. #14
    Join Date: Oct 2014

    Location: Surrey

    Posts: 186
    I'm Graham.

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    As an example i purchased a YBA integrated for around the NAD budget which cost around 2000 euros in 2001. It would cost 3-4k to get an equivalent new model today. Similarly, i bought a similar era Sugden Optima 80 for less than your receiver. Both these amps are high quality performers that sound lovely and are still serviced and supported by their respective factories.
    And if i sold them i wouldn't lose any money.
    I appreciate your choice may be more limited in Estonia but stick to quality audiophile brands from a reputable seller and you will almost certainly get a much better result than buying a cheap Chinese produced product.

  5. #15
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 25,948
    I'm Martin.

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    There's lies, damned lies and manufacturer's specifications

    if I were you I'd just keep the receiver as I doubt there will be any difference between that and the 2 channel integrated. Just switch of all the gubbins on the receiver if you are just listening to 2 channel music. Most of them have a 'direct' button that will bypass all the A/V circuitry.

    If the sound gets a bit hard or shouty then you are probably clipping it in which case you really need to look at a much more powerful amplifier (150 watts plus) as every doubling of power will only give you a 3db increase in volume, which is only a bit louder. Swapping from one budget amp to another will get you nowhere.
    Current Lash Up:

    *Sony SCD XB790QS* Nelson Pass DCB1 / Krell KSA100 mkII * JM Lab Electra 926 *


    'You fool! To think that your ape-brain could contain the full knowledge of the Krell!'

  6. #16
    Join Date: Jun 2014

    Location: Chorley Lancs

    Posts: 4,268
    I'm Steve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    There's lies, damned lies and manufacturer's specifications

    if I were you I'd just keep the receiver as I doubt there will be any difference between that and the 2 channel integrated. Just switch of all the gubbins on the receiver if you are just listening to 2 channel music. Most of them have a 'direct' button that will bypass all the A/V circuitry.

    If the sound gets a bit hard or shouty then you are probably clipping it in which case you really need to look at a much more powerful amplifier (150 watts plus) as every doubling of power will only give you a 3db increase in volume, which is only a bit louder. Swapping from one budget amp to another will get you nowhere.
    Velko's receiver is stereo, not an AV jobbie, but I agree swapping it for a similar budget model will not improve anything, and will just cost more money. Probably better to look for something used, to get more sound per pound. Plenty of good secondhand stuff around, to suit all budgets.
    Excuse me, are you the Judean People's Front?

    T/T: Inspire Monarch, X200 tonearm, Ortofon 2M Black. Phono: Yaqin MS-22B CD: Densen Beat B400 Plus; Headphone/pre: Myryad Z40; Amp: Audion Silver Night 300b stereo
    Speakers: Zu Omen Def. Atlas Equator interconnects, Atlas Hyper 3.0 speaker cables

    T'other system:
    Echo Dot, Amptastic Mini-1, Celestion 5's, BK XLS-200 DF

    A/V:
    Panasonic 42" plasma, Panasonic Blu Ray, Sony a/v amp, MA Radius speakers, REL Storm sub

  7. #17
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 25,948
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pigmy Pony View Post
    Velko's receiver is stereo, not an AV jobbie, .
    Right, didn't realise that. Didn't think anyone was still making stereo receivers that weren't also multi-channel AV amps.

    If the amp is clipping the other option would be to get more sensitive speakers. Should have mentioned that. You can buy decent quality, high efficiency (90db) speakers here pretty cheap, I don't know what the situation is in Estonia though.
    Current Lash Up:

    *Sony SCD XB790QS* Nelson Pass DCB1 / Krell KSA100 mkII * JM Lab Electra 926 *


    'You fool! To think that your ape-brain could contain the full knowledge of the Krell!'

  8. #18
    Join Date: Dec 2008

    Location: Lincolnshire, Home by the Sea

    Posts: 4,453
    I'm Shaun.

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    How do you quantify better or worse..?

    If your ears can tell a difference and you think it is better then it is but for how long..? Maybe six months..? What happens then when you realise that the difference is just that, a difference and it may not actually be 'better'...?

    Really difficult one to live with. What actually constitutes better..?


  9. #19
    Join Date: Jun 2014

    Location: Chorley Lancs

    Posts: 4,268
    I'm Steve.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Haselsh1 View Post
    How do you quantify better or worse..?

    If your ears can tell a difference and you think it is better then it is but for how long..? Maybe six months..? What happens then when you realise that the difference is just that, a difference and it may not actually be 'better'...?

    Really difficult one to live with. What actually constitutes better..?


    You either do the smart thing, and decide that rather than throwing good money after bad, you give up and find another hobby. Or more likely you just keep spending and changing stuff which is frustrating and fun in equal measure.
    Excuse me, are you the Judean People's Front?

    T/T: Inspire Monarch, X200 tonearm, Ortofon 2M Black. Phono: Yaqin MS-22B CD: Densen Beat B400 Plus; Headphone/pre: Myryad Z40; Amp: Audion Silver Night 300b stereo
    Speakers: Zu Omen Def. Atlas Equator interconnects, Atlas Hyper 3.0 speaker cables

    T'other system:
    Echo Dot, Amptastic Mini-1, Celestion 5's, BK XLS-200 DF

    A/V:
    Panasonic 42" plasma, Panasonic Blu Ray, Sony a/v amp, MA Radius speakers, REL Storm sub

  10. #20
    Join Date: Sep 2018

    Location: Estonia

    Posts: 29
    I'm Veiko.

    Default

    Thanks to everyone.
    For used stuff, the market here in Estonia is not very big, that's true.
    And for now I do not trust the idea of used gear.
    It might change of course once I can not upgrade any more
    with my money and I get a taste of a good deal .
    Yet I have some options to mess around at my budget-level.
    As for now I might get Onkyo A-9130. I will let you know how this works out.

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