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Thread: Upgrade or just spending

  1. #31
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 26,357
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pharos View Post

    The accuracy surely must make listening more forensic, and this frame of mind is not conducive to revelling in the art, unless we are sound recording fanatics admiring the work done technically.
    This is maybe the difference here as although I would not describe myself as a 'sound recording fanatic' I do prefer systems that lay the art of the engineer and producer 'bare' so to speak. I want the recording to sound like a recording, I don't want the system to mangle it so it 'sounds like a live performance' or 'musicians playing in my room' or any of that malarkey.

    Nor am I keen on the Audionote type of approach of making everything sound warm and cuddly with a bit of glitter thrown over it. Although I do find Audionote systems pleasant to listen to I wouldn't want one for personal use. Couldn't afford it anyway!

    Really comes back to what we personally think a top hi-fi system should sound like, and that's something we have probably been subconciously inoculated with at a much younger age. We didn't all have the same experiences then so not surprising that tastes differ. I suspect I would really like what your speakers do.
    Current Lash Up:

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  2. #32
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 2,609
    I'm Adrian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pharos View Post
    Adrian, I disagree with this;
    "Remember all that matters is what you hear and whether you are happy with it ".

    Because IME we can reach a point at which the system is so revealing that it becomes unpleasant. This then confronts us with the question; "Do I want a comfort zone, or to hear all the reality, warts and all".

    This is from a write-up on the Gammas:

    Professional monitoring loudspeakers
    are designed to reveal exactly what's
    in a recording, warts and all. Any bad
    aspects need to be obvious so that
    suitable corrections can be made,
    but in the home such a loudspeaker
    will usually be unbearable to listen to
    after a while, especially with some of
    the poor recordings doing the rounds
    these days..."

    I wrote the following in a discussion with a fellow Hi-Fi friend on my acquisition of ADAM speakers;

    They are like my cat, at times lovely and then full of mad surprises and seemingly spontaneous behaviour.
    It is very comfortable to be drunk or stoned, or for many, have a fag, and that is what many speakers seem to do by rounding off the unpleasant corners, and they leave one feeling in control Ė mental comfort zone, no infliction.
    These do not, wonderfully unruly like the cat.
    I am not quite sure of what you are saying. I actually was trying to say that if you like how your systems sounds to your ears then that is great, whether the system is expensive, middle of the road or cheap it does not matter, if it gives a good result as far as the listener is concerned then that is all that matters.

    On your point about monitors, or revealing systems, I personally have been through this hoop myself, having gowned pair of Wilson Benesch ARC's, a lovely speaker but it is IMO at the extreme end of accuracy. So as you say when listening to something not particularly well recorded or has noise etc then you would hear if full frontal so to speak, which i the worst cases would become annoying the the extent of changing what you were listening to. However when the input was good the output was superb

    So in my case I went to more forgiving loudspeakers, not necessarily as good but possibly a smoother rendition. However I still adhere to "What matters is what you hear is that you are happy with it"; so in other words whether you like a full on revealing sound, "warts and all" as you say, or a smooth relaxing experience then if you are happy then that's all that matters.
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    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes


    Voyd the Voyd (slighty modded)JELCO TK850M(10"), Benz Micro LP-S & Michel Cusis MC cartridge, Furutech AG-12-R4 High Performance Phono Cable, LFD MMC special phono stage, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi to Beresford Caiman SEG DAC, Sony 3d blu-Ray for CDs to Caiman SEG, ALLNIC T1500 MKII SET 300B amp, Tannoy Legacy Arden speakers and JBL L100 Century's , Chord Epic speaker leads, & signature links, the Eccose Conductor CA1 cd to pre, I think I am approaching my audio nirvana, but donít tell anyone

  3. #33
    Join Date: Mar 2017

    Location: Seaford UK

    Posts: 1,038
    I'm Dennis.

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    "On your point about monitors, or revealing systems, I personally have been through this hoop myself, having gowned pair of Wilson Benesch ARC's, a lovely speaker but it is IMO at the extreme end of accuracy. So as you say when listening to something not particularly well recorded or has noise etc then you would hear if full frontal so to speak, which i the worst cases would become annoying the the extent of changing what you were listening to. However when the input was good the output was superb "

    That covers the point Adrian, there being a conflict with wanting to hear the maximum of the art, but in so doing hearing the failings in recordings, and this latter is a distraction, perhaps a detraction.

  4. #34
    Join Date: Oct 2014

    Location: Surrey

    Posts: 243
    I'm Graham.

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    Hi Veiko, I am really pleased the amp is now sounding good for you and am delighted to be proven wrong ��. Good things come to those that wait ��

  5. #35
    Join Date: Mar 2017

    Location: Seaford UK

    Posts: 1,038
    I'm Dennis.

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    I am sorry if I have taken your thread off topic Veiko, and I am glad that you are now happy, but your thread had prompted and nudged some issues for me which needed resolving, and for that I am grateful.

  6. #36
    Join Date: Sep 2018

    Location: Estonia

    Posts: 35
    I'm Veiko.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pharos View Post
    I am sorry if I have taken your thread off topic Veiko, and I am glad that you are now happy, but your thread had prompted and nudged some issues for me which needed resolving, and for that I am grateful.
    No worries. Yes I am happy now, the sound has opened up more.
    As for these vocals, on the first day I was listening this group Stornoway, they have this very talented
    singer. On the first day I felt like his voice was overshadowed by other instruments. Weather it was or it
    was not, it is true, that the amp gives a lot more energy, color and punch to the whole act. For example,
    up to now this Zappa album Jazz from Hell was always on the "meh" category in my mind. But now I have
    found it to be very captivating - the previous setup never added that strength to these notes.
    Furthermore, setup with the receiver had kind of fading and mellow tone, from which the vocals of Stornoway
    stood very much out. Also because we often might set the first impression of songs as the "standard" for them,
    so having heard the new representation, it sounded off for also thanks to these reasons.

    To talk about speakers possibly being to revealing, I too believe that such an issue should be dealt with
    as the recording is made. Though I know it has not always been the case. If you as an artist don't want
    something to be heard, just don't record it.

  7. #37
    Join Date: Mar 2017

    Location: Seaford UK

    Posts: 1,038
    I'm Dennis.

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    It does seem to me Veiko that all speakers have emphases to some degree, perhaps some peaks or troughs in response, even a little coloration, andthese must form a part of our supposed 'normal'.

    Then we change and at the least are a little upset, maybe pleased, or maybe worried, as I am now that there is something fundamentally inaccurate with them.

    Another point is the levels at which we listen, which really affects the perception of presence and top, (Munsen curves), and I know that sound engineers often listen at high levels and after many years complain at damaged hearing. I know one in Hove who runs Heatherdale Audio.

    At 70 dB my system sounds bland, but at 82 it comes to life and if anything is too toppy, but I have seen people praise speakers, saying that certain models do not change with level, and this seems wrong given the science.

  8. #38
    Join Date: Mar 2017

    Location: Seaford UK

    Posts: 1,038
    I'm Dennis.

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    I measured the spls this morning on R4 at 9.30, and it peaked 60dB, and much of the speech was poor, but from experience live speech in my room typically peaks 70dB, so Munsen curves may be a factor here because broadcast O/Ps vary so much in level.

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