'Wallah', valves, political correctness, and Richard's rant

[Marco]

This happened with the 60's and 70's specmanship, the 70's and 80's and 90's flat earth and now just as badly as has become the paramount "truth" on this forum - the bottle wallers

Can you explain what you mean by "bottle wallers"? It would help if you just used plain (polite) English when expressing your views instead of 'Dunn-speak'

Marco.

[WikiBoy]

Can you explain what you mean by "bottle wallers"? It would help if you just used plain (polite) English when expressing your views instead of 'Dunn-speak'

Marco.

Comes from the Raj. A wallah is an Indian name for a servant with a specific job as in Punkawallah - in charge of the fan, or Charwallah - in charge of the tea. Bottle means a glass container. So I suppose servant of the bottle, which as we all should know is slang for a valve or for the US audience a tube.

Just a little humour and a play on words, but you will find offence where you wish to find it for sure.

[Marco]

Thanks for the clarification, Richard. There was no offence taken at any stage

I perhaps in future wouldn't assume that people automatically know what a "bottle waller" is, or other such unusual terminology. I'd never heard of it before and thought you had made it up. In fact I thought you were making some reference to valves!

Effective communication only occurs when all parties write in the same language. We're not living in the Raj

Marco.

[WikiBoy]

Thanks for the clarification, Richard. There was no offence taken at any stage

I perhaps in future wouldn't assume that people automatically know what a "bottle waller" is, or other such unusual terminology. I'd never heard of it before and thought you had made it up. In fact I thought you were making some reference to valves!

Effective communication only occurs when all parties write in the same language

Marco.

It is the same language, English is a bastard language that has absorbed from many tongues. Where do you think pajamas and bungalow came from, same as wallah. Are you saying I should not presume intelligence in these conversations

Plus I said quite clearly it was a reference to the valve users here, or should that be the *new* religion. As with all belief structures and religious hypocrisy, some will be offended and try to censor I am sure, same as the flat earthers did and do, same as the objectivists did and daftly still do.

There are no certainties, only possibilities.

[Marco]

It is the same language, English is a bastard language that has absorbed from many tongues. Where do you think pajamas and bungalow came from, same as waller. Are you saying I should not presume intelligence in these conversations

You are absolutely right about the English language and there are many examples of what you are referring to. However I think you'll agree that "pajamas" (did you mean pyjamas {Wink}) and "bungalow" are somewhat more commonly used than "waller" - whatever. Or maybe it's an age gap thing?

Anyway, what's wrong with valves, now - is this your latest moan?

Marco.

[WikiBoy]

You are absolutely right about the English language and there are many examples of what you are referring to. However I think you'll agree that "pajamas" (did you mean pyjamas {Wink}) and "bungalow" are somewhat more commonly used than "waller" - whatever. Or maybe it's an age gap thing?

Anyway, what's wrong with valves, now - is this your latest moan?

Marco.

Slip of the keyboard

Please read the post, do I object to objectivist, well yes I do as they are so pedantic, do I object to flat earthers - not really they created the move to subjectivism, but it went too far and on to a very narrow path. Do I object to bottle wallahs, nope not unless they become fixated and narrow minded. The technology I have no problem with at all I worked with it as I am old enough to remember when it was the only sensible option. It still has its place and I am very pleased it re-emerged from the wilderness, who in the UK do we thank for this do you remember were you around? Well it was Anthony Michaelson with TVR in the mid 70's, OK a majority went spectacularly up in flames but they were a welcome alternative to the burgeoning Linn / Naim religious pomposity.

There are valves and there are transistors, neither is right or wrong, both have strengths and weaknesses. Narrow minded pomposity means that some people cannot accept that if *they* as an individual have made a choice that their choice is the ultimate expression of musical reality, as they cannot be wrong, and bare no denial of that perceived reality. Just like religious bigotry.

Quite simply interface is king, if you get that interface synergy right and balanced to voltage amplification then valves are right. If the game is changed and the interface synergy is current based then transistors are right, substitute one for the other when the rest stays the same then both are wrong. Look at what you need or expect from musical reproduction and your perception and expectations of that synergy changes. For example (and there are many different examples) some look for the overall expression like looking at a landscape picture with mellow colours and unchallenging expression, they will more often than not go for valves. Those that want to delve into the music and understand structure and individual relationships and nuance will more often than not go for transistors, neither is right or wrong, just in this case broad brush or narrow brush. All a designer can do is be faithfull to his own taste, perception and preference, all a user should do is find the one that matches his. But respect the person who makes his own choice even though different from you and even though it may be AVI ADM9s

[Marco]

Good post, Richard. I'll come back to you on it tomorrow. I'm hitting the sack now, which my bed-waller has just prepared...



Marco.

[tfarney]

You are absolutely right about the English language and there are many examples of what you are referring to. However I think you'll agree that "pajamas" (did you mean pyjamas {Wink}) and "bungalow" are somewhat more commonly used than "waller" - whatever. Or maybe it's an age gap thing?

Anyway, what's wrong with valves, now - is this your latest moan?

Marco.

Valves are lovely. You could object to the heat, the expense and the specifications, though I really doubt the bit of extra measurable distortion is audible; besides, they sound good. If anything is objectionable it is not the valves themselves, but the fetishism that seems to grow around them, their mysterious tendency to push their users from preference to dogma. They are much like vinyl in that regard. Yes, they have a seductive aural appeal. But to the pragmatist, from an arm's length, the passion seems to be as much about ritual and romance as sound.

As a long-time guitarist, I love valves, but I've never felt compelled to use valves in hifi. I like the way they sound in that application, I hear the honey in the upper mids, but I've always thought of it as a flavor, not as something clearly superior. I'm going to have my first valve amp in here for an in-home trial, probably next week. I have a couple of good challenges to run it through. It should be interesting.

Tim

ON EDIT: Evidently Richard was posting while I was composing. Warped minds, it would seem, think somewhat alike...

[SteveW]

I think you mean wallah.

I should know, trust me.

[Marco]

Hehe... I know exactly what you mean. Spelling is not Richard's strongest point either. Hey, since you're so au fait with the lingo can we call you 'Gupta' from now on then, too? Oh deary, deary, me...



Marco.