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Thread: Anyone got experience of colin wonfor’s LS25 and atlas ascent 2 mkii speaker cable ?

  1. #11
    Join Date: Jan 2009

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    Martin, it says in your profile that you are using Apple TV and Spotify as your source - this will not provide you with the holographic imagery you describe - sorry to be blunt.

    100% Analogue

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by YNWaN View Post
    I’m afraid I think you are wasting your time expecting a cable upgrade/change to deliver the results you are hoping for. I don’t know what front end you are using but that would be the first thing I would look at. Secondly, the Lyngdorf amps I have heard have not been strong in the terms of ‘holographic imaging’. Finally, if you want really strong imagery you have to set your speakers up VERY carefully in terms of room position and alignment. Do not expect the powerful DSP processing some Lyngdorf amps have to iron out huge frequency response anomalies and maintain a holographic image.
    Provided that we are talking about the current generation of Lyngdorf's RoomPerfect system as included in the TDAi-2170 and TDAi-3400 amplifiers, and not earlier iterations, my experience is that the system does pretty much iron out quite significant room related anomalies; and one of its attributes that took me by surprise is the improvement in imaging, with the system activated. Stereo imaging is not something that I normally get excited about, but with classical recordings the extra spatial definition is marked and quite delightful. RoomPerfect is certainly the most musically transparent DSP room correction system that I've heard, and the amps themselves are rather sweet performers too. One of the key (and genuine) benefits of Lyngdorf's RoomPerfect system is that it does let you place the speakers where you'd like them to be (Lyngdorf suggest placing speakers close to the back wall, even when they have rear facing ports), and the system does more or less take care of things. There is a limit to all of this, of course, and RoomPerfect won't rescue a room that's acoustically like a public bath but it does work admirably in most domestic settings.

  3. #13
    Join Date: Jan 2009

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    Yes, I agree with all of that. What I meant was that the, very effective, room equalisation that the Lyngdorf amps can iron our some pretty serious speaker placement issues*, but when doing so is unlikely to maintain the extremely delicate effect required to produce ‘holographic’ imagery - very good yes, but not holographic.

    * There was a very good Lyngdorf demo at last weekends Cranage show (the North-West Audio Show). When I was there they were using a pair of tiny, wall mounted) monitors with corner positioned sub-woofers. Many thought the, also present, B&W 802 speakers were being used, but they were not. The demonstrator turned off the DSP and the sound fell apart in a profoundly obvious way and suddenly it sounded just like a pair of corner subs - overblown boomy bass and muddled lower mid - very convincing.

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  4. #14
    Join Date: Jan 2019

    Location: Kent UK

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    I'm Martin.

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    Thanks for the input guys.

    Yes I'm using TDAI 3400. Speakers are proac tablette 10 signatures. Sealed ls3/5a design and a Rel Stentor III in the corner.

    I think the sealed design and the fact that I roll off at 80hz means the proacs are very forgiving in positioning especially under the control of the Lyngdorf. My speakers are only 5ft apart but I get some stereo effects 5ft to the side of the speakers. Sound stage also has good height and some effects appear deep but nothing really projects forward.

    My sub I think I could experiment with corner adjustments to tune it to the room more effectively prior to the DSP magic. I did spend some time with the previous rel doing that but when I upgraded I just plonked it roughly the old position. My bass response is controlled but it's far from linear, did a few you tube sliding bass tests the other day and crudely watched a spl decibel reading on the iPad. Was easily +/- 6db swings between 20 and 80hz at 50db.

    I've just ordered myself some dnm resolution speaker cable. As it has solid core topology I'm interested if the presentation will be different to the atlas multistrand. They get good reviews and they are cheap enough to try without breaking the bank.

    So , when people talk of holographic soundstage is it truly 3D ? Or is it just big and well separated?




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  5. #15
    Join Date: Jul 2011

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    I'm Colin.

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    It should finger trouble again on keyboarddddddd

  6. #16
    Join Date: Jan 2009

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    As to ‘holographic’, well it’s a subjective term and means whatever the user thinks it does. However, there is no such thing as truly holographic, you can’t stand up and walk around the listeners, or even sit off to one side. My experience of really, really good stereo imagery from speakers is that it is about really solid individual placement of instruments that doesn’t move about with frequency and often, if a multi-tracked recording, individual instruments may have their own surrounding acoustic too. Live recordings have a strong sense of acoustic, singers are very stably positioned and believable. In every case, if you want really clearly etched stereo, you have to sit in a specific spot (and preferably in the near field).

    I have to add, I’m afraid I think DNM speaker cable is blooming awful stuff and whilst it may (though I doubt it) improve stereo focus it will absolutely kill dynamic expression - give me a thick multi-strand any day!

    Oh, and a +/- 6dB swing is a lot - if you mean it can swing a whole 12dB in total then that is vast. The DNM will slash bass dynamic so perhaps it will curtail your room excesses but it is really trying to make two wrongs add up to a right.

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  7. #17
    Join Date: Jan 2019

    Location: Kent UK

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    I'm Martin.

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    Hmm, well maybe I should settle with what I’ve got on soundstage as It fits with what you describe pretty much. The lyngdorf essentially allows you to tune the sweet spot or spots. You measure the distances to each speaker and sub enter it into the calibration and then measure at the seating positions. Ive programmed 2

    My usual listening position is central to the speakers , although its much further back to a typical sweet-spot as I’m right across the room just in front os the rear wall. My speakers are toed in just a few degrees to my seat. I have good stands loaded and I use Townshend speaker bars.

    Im going to work on optimising the sub as it is bigger than my old one and I never positioned it with care. As good as the lyngdorf DSP is I think if the sub is optimally tuned to the room before DSP then that should give the best results for the DSP to work from.

    As to the DNM resolution , there are members here who rate it , its not costing me much to try it.


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  8. #18
    Join Date: Jan 2019

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    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YNWaN View Post
    Martin, it says in your profile that you are using Apple TV and Spotify as your source - this will not provide you with the holographic imagery you describe - sorry to be blunt.
    It appears it does by your own standards.


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  9. #19
    Join Date: Jan 2019

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    I'm Martin.

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    Oh and as to the room perfect demonstration. I think its great .....but you could very easily swing a demonstration to exaggerate how good it is.

    If you took a little time to at least match the sub output levels to the main speakers (which is obviously what you would do without room correction). Then switching the room calibration on and off is certainly still immediately noticeable. If the volumes are mismatched to start with then you can make the effect much more pronounced.

    You get a better room calibration if the subwoofers are set at half volume (gives the software more to play with). But some combinations of subs and main speakers would naturally need the sub on a much lower volume.




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  10. #20
    Join Date: Jan 2019

    Location: Kent UK

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    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Wonfor View Post
    It should finger trouble again on keyboarddddddd
    Im sure its a very good cable Colin, i know you have lots of happy customers.

    Part of my problem is I’ve not heard many other systems or components. I should try and get to some hifi shows and meets


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