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Thread: Passive pre-amp

  1. #41
    Join Date: Mar 2017

    Location: London N2

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    I'm Edward.

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    Hi Oli

    I had more in mind the OP's original request for ideas when I posted rather than the technical aspects of passive preamps which this thread has evolved to.

    But yes it would be good to read about measured distortion amounts (generally and not only for LDRs), but I also wonder even if some distortion is measured it will be meaningful in an actual listening environment.

    I believe it was my LDR pre that Alan brought round to your gaff. Or maybe the smaller one he put together?

    atb
    Edward
    Source: Tidal/Roon
    DAC: Metrum HEX, Chevron Paradox

    Pre: LDR
    Amp: Radford Revival STA25 V,
    Sugden Masterclass 2018 spec
    Speakers: Tannoy Berkeley & Eaton, Kudos Cardea

    Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.



  2. #42
    Join Date: Nov 2015

    Location: Wolverhampton

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    I'm Oliver.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edward View Post
    Hi Oli

    I had more in mind the OP's original request for ideas when I posted rather than the technical aspects of passive preamps which this thread has evolved to.

    But yes it would be good to read about measured distortion amounts (generally and not only for LDRs), but I also wonder even if some distortion is measured it will be meaningful in an actual listening environment.

    I believe it was my LDR pre that Alan brought round to your gaff. Or maybe the smaller one he put together?

    atb
    Edward
    If yours was the large one with leds on, then yes it was yours.i was better than the chinese relay IIRC. Like I said, I thought it was an enjoyable listen and totally get why you enjoy it too.

    Yes, I understood the relevance to the ops question and I agree that your recommendation is warranted and valid, In that discussion.

    Let's see what ASF come back with and let the OP get back to finding a suitable passive pre!
    Analogue: Technics SP10 MK2 > Phonomac AT-1010 MK6 tonearm > Ortofon Kontrapunkt b > Bigbottle Jfet MC Valve Phonostage (Telefunken Valves)
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  3. #43
    Join Date: Sep 2013

    Location: North Island New Zealand

    Posts: 1,334
    I'm Chris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigman80 View Post
    I'm not saying they don't sound good. The one I had here, built by Alan [Firebottle] was good, I enjoyed it and said so.

    I am simply disputing the claim they are free of distortion when multiple sources claim otherwise with evidence provided. The values of resistance between two LDR's are rarely, if ever identical and channel balance issues are well known when using LDR's.

    If the Audio Science Forum come back with the result that it is free of distortion, I will accept that. They are not biased in any way bu the fact remains that LDR's are flawed, as are almost anything in HiFi.
    Nothing in audio is entirely distortion free. However our hearing has a perspective measuring instruments cannot begin to approach. As example pace rhythm and timing- measure that if you can successfully !
    What in measurements makes you want to dance, to begin tapping your feet... so measurements alone, are a tool to be viewed with much scepticism ( some would say hilarity ) .

    With LDR's there are poor ways of powering them , and there are really good ways of powering them. Sadly this difference
    has not been recognised before. It is my aim for this to change, to prove there are benefits to audio reproduction in audio systems, by recognising these differences.
    In the process the poorer ways of powering LDR's will be hopefully permanently forgotten.

  4. #44
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 25,726
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Light Dependant Resistor View Post
    Nothing in audio is entirely distortion free. However our hearing has a perspective measuring instruments cannot begin to approach. As example pace rhythm and timing- measure that if you can successfully !
    What in measurements makes you want to dance, to begin tapping your feet... so measurements alone, are a tool to be viewed with much scepticism ( some would say hilarity ) .
    You could find the reason for any of those characteristics in the measurements, albeit correlation of subjective appreciation and measured performance is not always straightforward.

    There isn't some mysterious force that controls foot tapping or whatever operating entirely independently of the parameters of the equipment in use.

    Nice try but that dog won't hunt.
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    Technics SLP1200 CD Player * Nelson Pass DCB1 Pre amp / Krell KSA50S Power amp * JM Lab Electra 926 loudspeakers *


    'You fool! To think that your ape-brain could contain the full knowledge of the Krell!'

  5. #45
    Join Date: Dec 2017

    Location: Lincolnshire

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    I'm Martin.

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    Whether measurements, or what is measured, make any difference to the sound or not may well be irrelevant. However, you can bet your life they're trotted out either positively or negatively depending on whether you're promoting or defending...

  6. #46
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 25,726
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scotty38 View Post
    Whether measurements, or what is measured, make any difference to the sound or not may well be irrelevant. However, you can bet your life they're trotted out either positively or negatively depending on whether you're promoting or defending...
    Even by people who usually say they don't care about the measurements, only what it sounds like! It's a minefield really and I'd advise not venturing in although it seems like we might have gone a couple of hundred yards already.
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    Technics SLP1200 CD Player * Nelson Pass DCB1 Pre amp / Krell KSA50S Power amp * JM Lab Electra 926 loudspeakers *


    'You fool! To think that your ape-brain could contain the full knowledge of the Krell!'

  7. #47
    Join Date: May 2009

    Location: Bristol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Even by people who usually say they don't care about the measurements, only what it sounds like! It's a minefield really and I'd advise not venturing in although it seems like we might have gone a couple of hundred yards already.
    The difference being that no-one's going to get their legs blown off discussing pre-amps.

  8. #48
    Join Date: Sep 2013

    Location: North Island New Zealand

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    I'm Chris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    You could find the reason for any of those characteristics in the measurements, albeit correlation of subjective appreciation and measured performance is not always straightforward.

    There isn't some mysterious force that controls foot tapping or whatever operating entirely independently of the parameters of the equipment in use.

    Nice try but that dog won't hunt.
    Entirely I agree, its not straightforward. Measurements cannot presently fully approach what we hear. Here's another one, how does measurement measure sound stage behind, above and forward of speakers?
    Measurement fails to qualify properly, all the things we hear in music, rather it presently jumbles it into another language that is hard to interpret. Measurements agreed are a useful tool, but only tell
    part of the picture.

  9. #49
    Join Date: Dec 2017

    Location: Lincolnshire

    Posts: 73
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Light Dependant Resistor View Post
    Entirely I agree, its not straightforward. Measurements cannot presently fully approach what we hear. Here's another one, how does measurement measure sound stage behind, above and forward of speakers?
    Measurement fails to qualify properly, all the things we hear in music, rather it presently jumbles it into another language that is hard to interpret. Measurements agreed are a useful tool, but only tell
    part of the picture.
    Agreed, but to Macca's point even if this is the stance somebody takes, if it also measure well those measurements will be promoted. If it doesn't measure well they're irrelevant....

  10. #50
    Join Date: Mar 2017

    Location: London N2

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    I'm Edward.

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    Of course the end result, of listening to music in a particular setting, will be the synergy between all the items in the audio chain ....

    Source: Tidal/Roon
    DAC: Metrum HEX, Chevron Paradox

    Pre: LDR
    Amp: Radford Revival STA25 V,
    Sugden Masterclass 2018 spec
    Speakers: Tannoy Berkeley & Eaton, Kudos Cardea

    Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.



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