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Thread: LP12 Upgrade bearing advice

  1. #11
    Join Date: Dec 2017

    Location: Lincolnshire

    Posts: 342
    I'm Martin.

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    Isn't the point of changing them together not that they are initially matched but they have "worn" together? I'm not suggesting there's any real mileage in it just that was my understanding of the reasoning.

  2. #12
    Join Date: Mar 2017

    Location: Melbourne

    Posts: 445
    I'm Karl.

    Default LP12 Upgrade bearing advice

    Just had another thought which i have come across before. Sometimes the belt rides up and touches the belt guide which causes that light whirring nose so i had to adjust the motor tilt to make sure that the belt didnt ride too high and rub against the guide and speed stayed accurate. Try that mate
    Last edited by Bigbird; 25-05-2019 at 06:28.
    CTC Classic 301 , SPH bearing and Hanze Hifi HAT CPS-2 all analogue power supply / Tenuto Mk2 mat / custom Panzerholz and Kewasinga articulating plinth / Track audio isolation feet / Reed tonearm / Audio Technica ART 9 / 2 box BigBottle mk3 phonostage with Clarity cap CMR and NOS Telefunkens valves / Croft 25R preamp with upgraded 12BH7A line stage and NOS 1956 RCA valves / Croft 7R monoblocks with NOS 56 RCA valves/ Dynaudio Contour 30i speakers / Spotfire interconnects and speaker cables / Merlin Scorpion mains block / Rhodium mains cables / Marantz CD DAC /

  3. #13
    Join Date: Mar 2017

    Location: Melbourne

    Posts: 445
    I'm Karl.

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    Forget that ive just read through all of the comments
    If you cant find a solution then get a refund mate, or take it off the price of an SSP12 sub (which is better than the linn one by a cats knacker, and a lot cheaper) and save for a cirkus . Cant be having noise from the bearing. If its audible to your ears then the cartridge will have a field day when it makes its way through the platter


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    CTC Classic 301 , SPH bearing and Hanze Hifi HAT CPS-2 all analogue power supply / Tenuto Mk2 mat / custom Panzerholz and Kewasinga articulating plinth / Track audio isolation feet / Reed tonearm / Audio Technica ART 9 / 2 box BigBottle mk3 phonostage with Clarity cap CMR and NOS Telefunkens valves / Croft 25R preamp with upgraded 12BH7A line stage and NOS 1956 RCA valves / Croft 7R monoblocks with NOS 56 RCA valves/ Dynaudio Contour 30i speakers / Spotfire interconnects and speaker cables / Merlin Scorpion mains block / Rhodium mains cables / Marantz CD DAC /

  4. #14
    Join Date: Apr 2011

    Location: Northamptonshire

    Posts: 185
    I'm Angus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YNWaN View Post
    ... the Mober bearing is a very odd design in that it has chosen to use twin ball races - frankly, this is entirely the wrong choice in a turntable bearing and will be very much noisier than the shaft and journal type Linn use (also the majority of all turntable manufacturers use a variant on this type of bearing). If you can hear a grinding with your ear then the actual noise being generated must be huge relative to the noise of the standard bearing.
    Agree 100% with this. The only place that this design of platter bearing is fit for is on a record-changer, where you need to have the mechanism operate through the centre of the bearing. I assume that nobody is trying to convert an LP12 to a record-changer.

  5. #15
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phonomac View Post
    Agree 100% with this. The only place that this design of platter bearing is fit for is on a record-changer, where you need to have the mechanism operate through the centre of the bearing. I assume that nobody is trying to convert an LP12 to a record-changer.
    I also agree. It's just being different for the sake of difference. Ball races can be excellent, but this application is not the place for them.
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

  6. #16
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: A Strangely Isolated Place in Suffolk with Far Away Trains Passing By...

    Posts: 14,535
    I'm David.

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    FFS fellas - the whole point of the LP12 design WAS the single point bearing in an oil-bath design, the rest 'borrowed' a lot from the TD150 ime.

    The two platters weren't ever matched pairs I agree, BUT, any bell modes were all but removed using a two-part platter. The fact they are all but the same size as the donor TD150 design is irrelevant here - they had drifted slightly apart in dimensions so the Thorens originals don't quite interchange with Linn ones, but you can see the broad dimensional similarity side by side

    Linn had good long lasting bearings BUT ALSO others from the mid 80's sadly which are highly suspect today in terms of wear and were borderline when new, being 'saved' by the black oil Linn introduced (there was a bad batch in '85 or so and the worst ones failed in half an hour of use I remember, the spindle tip having a burn mark at the bottom rather than a polished 'running mark' on the very tip). One deck I set up recently from the early 80's (from memory, dark bearing sleeves) was absolutely perfect, with not even a running mark on the spindle tip. Other white sleeved pre-Cirkus bearings (and sadly, apparently one or two Cirkus ones as well!) can show pronounced wear after thirty odd years, the polished 'flat' on the spindle tip becoming 'dirty' looking despite the effectiveness of Linn's 'black' oil in bringing wear in borderline-hardened thrust plates down. This does seem to have an audible effect on a good system.

    For the stock Linn bearing in good order, Tiger Paw do a magnetic arrangement which involves two opposing magnet 'rings,' one which fits around the bearing well on the sub-chassis (it seems to fit without stripping anything down) and the other a ceramic? ring attached to the underside of the sub-chassis. It works superbly to reduce loading on the spindle and bearing thrust plate (I was told by around 75% but can't be sure), is easily removed if necessary and I was told by 'ears' I trust it has definite sonic benefits too... I can't find it, but if you contact them, they can help and Roger knows how to set the deck up in stock form too so can advise if you find some Linn dealers a bit much

    Parting shot - old geriatric LP12 wrecks have MANY potential issues structurally and sonically, believe me, the current offering in a different sonic world to early 80's models fitted with Ittoks and similar (I've done the comparisons and have huge regard for the current issue LP12, if not the stupidly ott prices Linn want now for a 'blue printed' TD150). The main bearing in good order is one of the quietest out there and with good tolerances in the sleeving supporting all that mass and any noises in the deck at all are usually motor or old belt related (fifty quid for a belt is an absolute joke methinks). Go back to the stock bearing unless it's knackered and get the sodding thing properly set up. they don't drift so much these days and if the deck is years old as many are now, the wooden parts should have compressed in nicely, not needing such regular attention.

    Sadly, Derek Jenkins is no longer with us, but he was an LP12 expert in southern England and worked around one or two London dealers (KJ and Infidelity at least). Surely he had trained acolytes to take over from him now he's sadly passed away.

    I dunno, just chuck the bloody thing out and replace with a Spacedeck, Rega 8 or Technics or summat - They'd save many headaches and may well sound tons better too....
    Tear down these walls; Cut the ties that held me
    Crying out at the top of my voice; Tell me now if you can hear me

  7. #17
    Join Date: Mar 2017

    Location: Melbourne

    Posts: 445
    I'm Karl.

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    +1 for the tiger paw tranquility, it works an absolute treat. My platter/cirkus bearing spins freely and silently for around 4 minutes or so when given a good spin , i heard it takes up to 90% of the load off the bearing thrust plate . There was a couple on ebay recently. Not sure if theyre still there.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    CTC Classic 301 , SPH bearing and Hanze Hifi HAT CPS-2 all analogue power supply / Tenuto Mk2 mat / custom Panzerholz and Kewasinga articulating plinth / Track audio isolation feet / Reed tonearm / Audio Technica ART 9 / 2 box BigBottle mk3 phonostage with Clarity cap CMR and NOS Telefunkens valves / Croft 25R preamp with upgraded 12BH7A line stage and NOS 1956 RCA valves / Croft 7R monoblocks with NOS 56 RCA valves/ Dynaudio Contour 30i speakers / Spotfire interconnects and speaker cables / Merlin Scorpion mains block / Rhodium mains cables / Marantz CD DAC /

  8. #18
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Deleted

    Posts: 6,585
    I'm Deleted.

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    Peter Swain of Cymbiosis does a very good LP12 set up.

    There’s no ceramic in the TP Tranquility (I should know ), but it can indeed be fitted and removed without stripping the deck down - all you need to do is remove the inner platter.
    Account Deleted

  9. #19
    Join Date: May 2018

    Location: Woking

    Posts: 803
    I'm Chris.

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    Hi guys, thanks for all the measured responses.

    Truly appreciated. A serious amount of dedicated knowledgeable people which really come to the rescue at times like this.

    I stuck the old bearing in there last night, back to silence and the deck sounds as good as it ever did. (Better with the Mose power supply and board of course).

    I certainly will be sending it back for a refund and probably looking at the SSLP12 upgrade as well as the Tranquility upgrade.

    Or if a Cirkus can be had for "reasonable" (not Linn reasonable) money I might plumb for that.

    Also fully intend to get it setup professionally once and for all (okay a few years) but at least then I will know it is performing at its best.

    Awesome info for the novice like me there David.

    Peter Swain of Cymbiosis has come up on my radar before and seems like a great way to go now - cheers Mark.

    As for trading it in and getting something less high maintenance, ship has slightly sailed there plus the old man would write me out of his will (assuming I'm in there anyway) as he donated it to me and also raised his eyebrows when I told him I might "freshen it up a bit" . . .

    Like I say I'm really humbled by the informative and helpful responses, that's what this place is all about

    Big thanks to all of you.

    Cheers,

    Chris

  10. #20
    Join Date: Mar 2017

    Location: Melbourne

    Posts: 445
    I'm Karl.

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    The cirkus is the cheaper part , its only 125 quid if I remember correctly??? Maybe youll get one in the classifieds a bit cheaper than that or ebay? Im sure somebody has one knocking around in a drawer somewhere. Its the subplatter thats the expensive bit, but the ssp12 is pretty affordable in comparison.

    Glad youve narrowed down the issue to the bearing and can now get on to edmund about a refund to use elsewhere


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    CTC Classic 301 , SPH bearing and Hanze Hifi HAT CPS-2 all analogue power supply / Tenuto Mk2 mat / custom Panzerholz and Kewasinga articulating plinth / Track audio isolation feet / Reed tonearm / Audio Technica ART 9 / 2 box BigBottle mk3 phonostage with Clarity cap CMR and NOS Telefunkens valves / Croft 25R preamp with upgraded 12BH7A line stage and NOS 1956 RCA valves / Croft 7R monoblocks with NOS 56 RCA valves/ Dynaudio Contour 30i speakers / Spotfire interconnects and speaker cables / Merlin Scorpion mains block / Rhodium mains cables / Marantz CD DAC /

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