Sound Size

[Lawrence001]

Not something I’ve seen discussed. My other half was between the speakers the other night. I realised the sound was bigger than her, like vocals were coming from a giant head. I suppose it it relates to sound stage etc. I wouldn’t have noticed had she not been there and when I am on my own there is no context. Has anyone else noticed this?

How far apart are your speakers? My experience has always been that if you position them quite far apart for large scale music, you stretch out performers on more intimate recordings. Unless the intimate recordings are compressed towards the middle of the soundstage wise (which I have found for example on some Hyperion recordings relative to close mic'd Archiv) then I think this is an inevitable consequence. Others may have different experiences.

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[Pharos]

I've never experienced a voice which is 'centred' as, anything other than an inappropriately wide and spread one on six sets, five of which were high end speakers.

[RMutt]

How far apart are your speakers? My experience has always been that if you position them quite far apart for large scale music, you stretch out performers on more intimate recordings. Unless the intimate recordings are compressed towards the middle of the soundstage wise (which I have found for example on some Hyperion recordings relative to close mic'd Archiv) then I think this is an inevitable consequence. Others may have different experiences.

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I suppose they are about seven or eight foot apart. A couple of feet from side and back walls and about seven foot from the listening position. Thinking about it and having another little experiment I suspect it is related to volume as Barry thought. A quiet voice can be amplified to the point where it is louder than someone in the room speaking loudly. This then feels incongruous and creates the ‘ big head/vocal’ situation. Interesting thoughts on centred vocals from Pharos and perhaps part of the equation of what I am witnessing. I suppose no one has tried this themselves yet?

[Pharos]

W. r. t. voices, it is worth considering that much recorded voice is not well done, and this hinders assessment of the system's ability to reproduce any image of a vocalist.

IMO most films have appallingly recorded voices, most BBC radio is not good, and in fact sound has just become a commodity from broadcasters, made worse by the dialectic drift and poor enunciation.

Finding good material is vital.

[Barry]

What price operas?

[Gaz]

The whole soundstage thing is something I find fascinating.

People seem to forget (although it was mentioned earlier in the thread) that the whole thing is an illusion and as such is open to the interpretation of the listener, I personally am unable (regardless of the system or recording) to hear what is referred to as depth or 3D in a soundstage, I get the "speakers disappearing" thing but have never been able to place an instrument for hear anything coming from behind the speakers.

Interestingly I have challenged people on several forums to name a piece of music and explain where a particular instrument appears to be, then see if others agree, as yet only a couple of people have done so but nobody has been able to confirm that they hear the same.

[Light Dependant Resistor]

The whole soundstage thing is something I find fascinating.

People seem to forget (although it was mentioned earlier in the thread) that the whole thing is an illusion and as such is open to the interpretation of the listener, I personally am unable (regardless of the system or recording) to hear what is referred to as depth or 3D in a soundstage, I get the "speakers disappearing" thing but have never been able to place an instrument for hear anything coming from behind the speakers.

Interestingly I have challenged people on several forums to name a piece of music and explain where a particular instrument appears to be, then see if others agree, as yet only a couple of people have done so but nobody has been able to confirm that they hear the same.

The recording if well recorded, ( applying to acoustic instruments, or lightly amplified ) will capture the precise location of each musician. The soundstage therefore is not an illusion
rather is playing back the location of the musicians during the actual recording. To see this and hear this, ideally a photo of where the recording took place should accompany
the CD or other medium purchased. You will see and hear then the soundstage exactly, on a lot of ECM recordings.

As for depth coming behind the speakers, locate a copy of Geneis Trick of the Tail, the last 25 seconds with Phil Collins singing " Theres an angel standing in the Sun
freed to get back home of the last track Los Endos , should show incredible depth - maybe let us know once you have heard that.

[Gaz]

I know this might sound argumentative but that's not how it's intended

Of course it's an illusion.
It is an undeniable fact that the sound is coming from two boxes, there isn't really an artist/band/orchestra in the room with you. Those boxes can project sound forwards, left, right, and perhaps a tiny bit backwards. If a sound is louder in the left box this leads the listener to imagine that whatever made that sound is on the left etc, louder sounds sound closer, quieter ones farther away etc but that is nothing more than the listener imagining the placement of various instruments.

3D TV is exactly the same, the images aren't really coming out from the screen it is simply an illusion created to fool the brain.

[mikeyb]

3D TV is exactly the same, the images aren't really coming out from the screen it is simply an illusion created to fool the brain.

Arggh no, you're joking right?

TVs going back to the shop

[Macca]

The whole soundstage thing is something I find fascinating.

People seem to forget (although it was mentioned earlier in the thread) that the whole thing is an illusion and as such is open to the interpretation of the listener, I personally am unable (regardless of the system or recording) to hear what is referred to as depth or 3D in a soundstage, I get the "speakers disappearing" thing but have never been able to place an instrument for hear anything coming from behind the speakers.

Interestingly I have challenged people on several forums to name a piece of music and explain where a particular instrument appears to be, then see if others agree, as yet only a couple of people have done so but nobody has been able to confirm that they hear the same.

Try Jeff Beck 'Live At Ronnie Scot's' - I've heard that with front to back depth so realistic it was like I was at the venue. Can't get that effect on my system though. Assuming the system (especially speakers) is good enough you should be able to get pretty solid left to right soundstage though. It has been deliberately created by the engineer so in that sense whilst it may be an illusion it is an intended one.

Sinatra at the Sands is another good one for depth. Sinatra up front with the audience noise in front of him, piano off to his right and slightly back, orchestra behind that, arranged in a semi circle. All the cues to generate this are there in the recording.

I'll repeat that nothing should be happening in front of the plane of the speakers unless some weird processing system like Q Sound has been used. If the singer sounds like they are stood in front of the speakers that's a fail as far as fidelity to the recording goes, even if you might like it that way.