Transistors vs valves

[walpurgis]

How about the old marantz receivers 2215 2225 2245 (other 4 number variations available upon request) They had a valve type sound to them and still look good imo

It is impossible for a solid state device to have a 'valve sound' as it employs no valves.

Actually, I'd love to see somebody try to define 'valve sound'. It doesn't exist!

Variations in the presentation from different amplifier types are due to deviations from perfect reproduction. As nothing is perfect, amplifiers will vary.

[Pepperamip]

I don't think it is impossible at all.

There are without doubt ss amps that sound more like valve amps than others. They are achieving the same goal regardless of the method employed.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

[Light Dependant Resistor]

I'm not sure I can go along with this theory.

Are you saying that if money or expertise was NO object and you built the best valve and solid state amps that have ever been built on this planet then they would sound identical?

There is no getting around the physics involved with each type, Where valve amps come undone is driving low impedance loads, but on the other hand excel
where high impedance speaker loads are used. Solid state is the exact opposite. The proper answer is to current drive amplifiers so they are aware of the speaker load and in theory any
speaker can be driven as it is always being assessed by the amplifier. The traditional voltage amplifier only has control over the speaker lead it is driving, which is known as a Zobel network.
It is basically clue-less as to the actual speaker being used, but does its best to answer this by providing a reliable and some would say very reliable supply of voltage.

So the majority of amplifiers act as a voltage source amplifying a small input voltage to be a much larger output voltage. If we instead current drive amplifiers they can sense
the loudspeaker load, and in the process provide lower distortion audio

The concept of current drive is partially explained here http://jerryrutten.nl/why-current-drive/
and discussed with more detail here: https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soli...dspeakers.html

[bumpy]

No, what Geoff is saying is that IF you were to build the best amplifiers you could, they wouldn't/shouldn't sound like a valve or a SS amplifier. Those sound types are characteristics of an amp. The better an amp is, the less of those stereotypical characteristics exists.

Surely that's just another way of saying they will sound the same.

[bumpy]

There is no getting around the physics involved with each type, Where valve amps come undone is driving low impedance loads, but on the other hand excel
where high impedance speaker loads are used. Solid state is the exact opposite. The proper answer is to current drive amplifiers so they are aware of the speaker load and in theory any
speaker can be driven as it is always being assessed by the amplifier. The traditional voltage amplifier only has control over the speaker lead it is driving, which is known as a Zobel network.
It is basically clue-less as to the actual speaker being used, but does its best to answer this by providing a reliable and some would say very reliable supply of voltage.

So the majority of amplifiers act as a voltage source amplifying a small input voltage to be a much larger output voltage. If we instead current drive amplifiers they can sense
the loudspeaker load, and in the process provide lower distortion audio

The concept of current drive is partially explained here http://jerryrutten.nl/why-current-drive/
and discussed with more detail here: https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soli...dspeakers.html

I like this sort of info and will read it later. Thanks

[chris@panteg]

Last year I went from a solid state system back to an all valve system, though PP not single ended but the point I would make is it doesn't have what I would call a valve type of sound, just very open clean and strong with excellent bass performance, not warm and cosy.

From what I can remember the Musical Fidelity A1 had a very obviously valvey type of sound if that's what you like, very warm and slightly rolled off, it's not for me though.

[hifinutt]

Amplifiers that have a 'solid-state sound' or a 'valve sound' do so because there's something wrong with them. A properly designed amp of either sort should impart no character of its own to the sound.

ha , very rare i disagree with you geoff but why bother trying different amps then ? i have 2 integrated here which both have their own sound . i like the character of one of them, it gives texture , musicality and is engaging . another class A amp arriving today to play with and be interesting to see what it sounds like

the nearest amps i have to be completely neutral are the schitt freya pre with the firebottle hybrid monoblocks which are extremely neutral

[Bigman80]

Surely that's just another way of saying they will sound the same.

No two amplifiers sound the same. Obviously my point has been missed.

[Light Dependant Resistor]

No two amplifiers sound the same. Obviously my point has been missed.

I think that needs amended or allowed wording as to permit, ... An amplifier built from the same schematic and parts as another.
As example 2 x Quad 306's will sound pretty well identical. As example I have two of these and can attest they sound the same.

So amended as No two different Brands/ models of amplifier sound the same, suggests as slightly wiser wording.

[Bigman80]

I think that needs amended or allowed wording as to permit, ... An amplifier built from the same schematic and parts as another.
As example 2 x Quad 306's will sound pretty well identical. As example I have two of these and can attest they sound the same.

So amended as No two different Brands/ models of amplifier sound the same, suggests as slightly wiser wording.

What I find sometimes on forums is that people only read what the want to read. To any man and his dog, sticking two amplifiers of exactly the same spec together, should show that the sound is the exactly the same.

That's called quality control.

Any company throwing out identical amplifiers, that sound different to the exact same model next to it, is going to be in trouble. Hence my utter reluctance to chase a fabled "when you get a good one....." Decca cartridge etc.

My point was, when amplifiers get to a certain point in quality, it's almost impossible to say whether it's a valve amp or a SS amp. That's been my experience, and that's what I was trying to express but as I said, either it wasn't read that way or the point didn't convey.

If you HAVEN'T heard that first hand, you need to get out and have a listen to some amplifiers.

I still haven't looked up the spec of Nick Gorham's MFA Monoblocks. I don't know what the build is and I couldn't tell from listening to them. Anthony TD does amplifiers that reportedly do the same, as does my Krell.

The characteristics of valves or SS are what they are, when you get to that level of build quality, you wouldn't be able to tell from listening.