Deciding on speakers to keep/ comparing - hard work

[philv]

That is the quandry.
Too much money in speakers and the pm4 sounds good with them all.

Should be a good match for all of them. I can see your quandary.

[philv]

Thanks.I may try this.
The snells are luvly, always liked them and the silver wire and audionote refoaming take them to a different level.
But at the same time the jbls have great listenability, accurate or not. Fun!

Today was tne first time i trued comparing tnem.
I sort of didn’t want to in case it was not the result i expected.

Well the amp is a well respected and quality one which should do any of them justice.

It's a tricky one with the speakers I used to have a pair of Snell K's and loved them, do you have them on Pirate stands(they weight a ton), I found this improved the bass and soundstage quite a bit, might be worth considering first before getting rid of them. I used to drive mine with an Audio Innovations Series 500 valve amp and these together were very well matched, dynamic and musical. The JBL's are great speakers but I believe will give more low down and if my understanding is right have a bit of a lift around 120hz, probably great for driving rock but maybe not so good for classical and more laid back stuff, but I could be wrong. IMO the Snells are probably the more accurate of the speakers and certainly should be good with all the fettling done.

An approach I have taken several times is as below, and I found it helps to make some sense of it all.

If it was me and I was confused I would pick 5-10 tracks that I know very well, make myself a little spread sheet and score each speaker for each track on top, mid, bass, musicality, separation/detail, attack and soundstage, scoring from 1-10 (1 poor, 10 can't be better). I would listen to all the tracks with each speaker and write down a score for each and at the end add them up. I would also make short notes along the way for each track and a summary at the end, so I did not forget my thoughts/feelings about them at the time.

I would then have a break before moving onto then next pair of speaker so to avoid being influenced by what I had just listened to. Once I had listened to all 3 pairs I would compare notes and decide which was tops and to keep.

For example tracks I use are, obviously you could just do yours:-

10cc - Sheet Music, The Worst Band in the World - very dynamic and great separation of instruments

Alan Parsons - I Robot, I Robot - a classic with lots going one, you will know if it sounds right

Paul Simon - Graceland, Boy in the Bubble - a great pacey track with lots of drumming, listen out for the backing singers, should be clear

Sinead O’Connor - I Feel So Different - a very telling track, her vocals are easily mucked up with sibilance if something is not right, you should be able to hear her breathy vocals, the bowed string sections should be clear and there is plenty of bass. The drumming on the following track has loads of attack to check out the speakers.

Peter Gabriel - Security - Rhythm of the Heat - drumming and bass abounds on this track, his voice should be clear in the mix, and there is a lot of bass extension at the beginning and end.

Eva Cassidy - Fields of Gold - this is probably one of the most telling vocal tracks I know of, her voice should sound natural and unforced, if sibilance is creeping in it then its not right, listen to her acoustic guitar should sound warm and natural like it is in the room, the electric guitar as some subtle harmonics going on in several places which can be easily lost.

Ravi Shankar - Portrait of a Genius, Tala Rasa Ranga - all natural instruments, a superb track to check out reproduction of drums, you should be able to clearly hear the two hand drums and how they interplay, the sitar should sit in the middle of the mix with the high ringing drone clear, there is hand percussion which should sound clean and crisp with a ring to it. The flute should sound smooth and natural.

[goraman]

I do not like most JBL's in smaller rooms , they are an in your face speaker ,My vote is for the Snell K's on lead shot filled stands near the wall.
Unless the room is large.

[Pharos]

The problem is that each type has its own good aspects and also poorer ones, and we habituate to one pair, and then, when we change, with another pair are bowled over by a slightly different emphasis which may allow us to hear a particular frequency range better - they all have different F responses and good aspects.

We can then go through all or material and enjoy that revelation, until we habituate to that speaker's sound.
If you want, and choose for accuracy, then you will IMO hear failings on everything you listen to in some area, each recording having its own failings and merits minimally altered by the speakers.

I have been comparing and changing speakers since '85, having had eight expensive pairs in that time, and I know that I can become addicted to a 'certain sound', even if it is not accurate, which is another facet of the situation.

I think that there is no doubt that a more expensive speaker will in general be better than a cheaper one, but it is not a linear, (directly proportional) relationship between money and SQ. Surely we all seek the anomalously good one for any given outlay.

If you have three sets in competition in only one situation, does it not seem better to invest that money in only one better pair?

[Discopants]

I do not like most JBL's in smaller rooms , they are an in your face speaker ,My vote is for the Snell K's on lead shot filled stands near the wall.
Unless the room is large.

Not having heard any of these speakers , my instinct would also be with the Snell’s. Personally I wouldn’t decide until I added a subwoofer* and choose whatever sounded the best integrated with the sub over the largest range of music (as I like Jazz, classical, EDM, indie, folk, rock and pretty much everything in between).

* Something like a Rel Stadium 2 coincidently I have a mint one available .


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[oldius]

Having had many, many speakers, my vote would be to keep your favourite JBL. Snell are good but, in my experience, with a more limited range of music. JBL are also increasing in value as UK listeners begin to realise what the rest of the world has known for a long time.

[Macca]

Having had many, many speakers, my vote would be to keep your favourite JBL. Snell are good but, in my experience, with a more limited range of music. JBL are also increasing in value as UK listeners begin to realise what the rest of the world has known for a long time.

True but neither of the JBLs is amongst their best offerings which is why I suggested flogging all three sets and getting some better JBLs. I'm not keen on the Audionote/Snell approach so I deffo wouldn't keep them. If I had to keep one of the three it would be the 4312. They are also the most likely of the three to increase in value.

[Lawrence001]

Well the amp is a well respected and quality one which should do any of them justice.

It's a tricky one with the speakers I used to have a pair of Snell K's and loved them, do you have them on Pirate stands(they weight a ton), I found this improved the bass and soundstage quite a bit, might be worth considering first before getting rid of them. I used to drive mine with an Audio Innovations Series 500 valve amp and these together were very well matched, dynamic and musical. The JBL's are great speakers but I believe will give more low down and if my understanding is right have a bit of a lift around 120hz, probably great for driving rock but maybe not so good for classical and more laid back stuff, but I could be wrong. IMO the Snells are probably the more accurate of the speakers and certainly should be good with all the fettling done.

An approach I have taken several times is as below, and I found it helps to make some sense of it all.

If it was me and I was confused I would pick 5-10 tracks that I know very well, make myself a little spread sheet and score each speaker for each track on top, mid, bass, musicality, separation/detail, attack and soundstage, scoring from 1-10 (1 poor, 10 can't be better). I would listen to all the tracks with each speaker and write down a score for each and at the end add them up. I would also make short notes along the way for each track and a summary at the end, so I did not forget my thoughts/feelings about them at the time.

I would then have a break before moving onto then next pair of speaker so to avoid being influenced by what I had just listened to. Once I had listened to all 3 pairs I would compare notes and decide which was tops and to keep.

For example tracks I use are, obviously you could just do yours:-

10cc - Sheet Music, The Worst Band in the World - very dynamic and great separation of instruments

Alan Parsons - I Robot, I Robot - a classic with lots going one, you will know if it sounds right

Paul Simon - Graceland, Boy in the Bubble - a great pacey track with lots of drumming, listen out for the backing singers, should be clear

Sinead O’Connor - I Feel So Different - a very telling track, her vocals are easily mucked up with sibilance if something is not right, you should be able to hear her breathy vocals, the bowed string sections should be clear and there is plenty of bass. The drumming on the following track has loads of attack to check out the speakers.

Peter Gabriel - Security - Rhythm of the Heat - drumming and bass abounds on this track, his voice should be clear in the mix, and there is a lot of bass extension at the beginning and end.

Eva Cassidy - Fields of Gold - this is probably one of the most telling vocal tracks I know of, her voice should sound natural and unforced, if sibilance is creeping in it then its not right, listen to her acoustic guitar should sound warm and natural like it is in the room, the electric guitar as some subtle harmonics going on in several places which can be easily lost.

Ravi Shankar - Portrait of a Genius, Tala Rasa Ranga - all natural instruments, a superb track to check out reproduction of drums, you should be able to clearly hear the two hand drums and how they interplay, the sitar should sit in the middle of the mix with the high ringing drone clear, there is hand percussion which should sound clean and crisp with a ring to it. The flute should sound smooth and natural.

Personally I wouldn't choose between speakers before also hearing some orchestral, chamber and choral music on them.

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[Lawrence001]

Having had many, many speakers, my vote would be to keep your favourite JBL. Snell are good but, in my experience, with a more limited range of music. JBL are also increasing in value as UK listeners begin to realise what the rest of the world has known for a long time.

My first pair of speakers at 16 were JBLs, must have had good taste I preferred the sound to the Missions, JPWs etc I compared them to at Manders in Grimsby. They weren't classics though sadly.

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[philv]

I have the snells up for sale at the moment as they are possibly easier to sell.
Finances dictate, etc.

For tne jbls, the 4312mk2 has great clarity amongst other attributes.
Really impressed.
And of course, 12 inch drivers.

But tne L26 are just fun to listen to as well. Expecially after tne upgrades.
The L26 are far better for tne mods.

Are they the best JBLs?
Of course not, tnere is always better.
But having owned snell a3, kef 104/2 and some over well respected speakers, i seem to listen to music longer with the jbls.
It does seem with L100 through 4312 and beyond, the jbls divide opinion.

It’s not always about perfect reproduction of sound for me.
By tne time sound passes through tnese compromised ears, who knows what sort of frequency curve i need from a speaker for it to sound great.

A/b ing is hard i find because playing a snippet of music and switching via speaker out button to compare 2 speakers, i come to the conclusion a is ‘better’ than be.
But in isolation b just sounds great.