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Thread: Triode or Ultralinear, again

  1. #1
    Join Date: Dec 2008

    Location: East Riding of Yorkshire these days

    Posts: 4,779
    I'm Shaun.

    Default Triode or Ultralinear, again

    Been listening a lot to my power amp in triode and ultralinear modes just to make my mind up as to which I prefer. Yesterday I was listening to Joshua Redman's 'Freedom In The Groove' from 1996 and started in ultralinear mode. Nice crisp, sharp sound with quite a lot of treble detail and plenty of sparkle. I then switched over to triode mode and it immediately lost a lot of its air and sparkle but sounded a whole lot more real and tangible.

    I am using JJ EL34's at the moment so those familiar with them will know the 'sound' of that valve but, gotta say, love the triode sound for utter realism of that album. Of yeah, still using Spendors by the way.

    The sound is just so dry, close and intimate. Way different to ultralinear. Bring it on..!


  2. #2
    Join Date: Mar 2014

    Location: KY - Scotland

    Posts: 5,465
    I'm Mike.

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    I switch between them depending on the recording, sometimes it's better, sometimes not, still using stock PL valves, I own JJ EL34II's but took them out when I thought one of them was causing issues, didn't make any difference to the issue but I haven't put them back in yet.

  3. #3
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: South Wales

    Posts: 9,151
    I'm NotTakingLifeTooSeriouslyTheseDays.

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    Hi Shaun,
    First of all;
    There are very few Audio tetrode/pentode valves that can be classed as a true triode and therefore those that maintain linearity when connected as one ie; Screen grid strapped to Anode etc, one of which is the KT66, so configuring an amplifier to work on both with most other tetrode/pentodes will almost always compromise on either the tetrode mode, or triode mode, or both!
    In my opinion it is always better to optimise an amplifier for either, not both, however; you can get a good compromise much of the time.
    Again, in my opinion, what your hearing with your amp in triode mode is the mid to high frequencies dropping off much sooner than in pentode mode, also the gain of the amp will change, almost always needing to be turned up to equal the same sound presure level.
    A...
    Last edited by anthonyTD; 11-04-2019 at 13:07. Reason: spelling!
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  4. #4
    Join Date: Dec 2008

    Location: East Riding of Yorkshire these days

    Posts: 4,779
    I'm Shaun.

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    Anthony you are indeed correct regarding the volume issue. The remainder of what you say I am in no position to comment on. Your knowledge is great against mine. Your comment about the high frequencies though is valid as it does sound as though those frequencies are quite severely rolled off. In ultralinear, the sound is vibrant and full of sparkle but saxophone for example sounds slightly edgy and unreal, however cymbals sound wonderful and the air of the recording is obvious. Vocals also get me in that often a voice has an unnatural edge to it that we simply do not have when we sing in a room but when in triode mode there is no such emphasis. I guess it really is a case of one mode for one sort of music and the other for everything else as stated by mikeyb.

  5. #5
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: South Wales

    Posts: 9,151
    I'm NotTakingLifeTooSeriouslyTheseDays.

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    Hi Shaun, I get where your coming from,
    My point being, if the amp was optimised for one or the other, those issues you describe with either mode could I am sure be mostly eliminated.
    A...
    Quote Originally Posted by Haselsh1 View Post
    Anthony you are indeed correct regarding the volume issue. The remainder of what you say I am in no position to comment on. Your knowledge is great against mine. Your comment about the high frequencies though is valid as it does sound as though those frequencies are quite severely rolled off. In ultralinear, the sound is vibrant and full of sparkle but saxophone for example sounds slightly edgy and unreal, however cymbals sound wonderful and the air of the recording is obvious. Vocals also get me in that often a voice has an unnatural edge to it that we simply do not have when we sing in a room but when in triode mode there is no such emphasis. I guess it really is a case of one mode for one sort of music and the other for everything else as stated by mikeyb.
    Last edited by anthonyTD; 11-04-2019 at 13:08. Reason: spelling!
    "Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
    Nikola Tesla



    Its now a conspiracy theory to believe that the Immune system is capable of doing the job it was designed to do.
    A fish is only as healthy as the water its swimming in ! [Dr Robert Young]


    www.tubedistinctions.co.uk

    Matthew 5:10

  6. #6
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 9,302
    I'm Andrew.

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    Why make life complicated? How about simply listening to whatever sounds best for each recording??
    SS
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  7. #7
    Join Date: Jun 2015

    Location: London/Durham

    Posts: 6,869
    I'm Lawrence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by REXTON View Post
    Why make life complicated? How about simply listening to whatever sounds best for each recording??
    Because you can get caught up in constantly fiddling around to decide which sounds better and forget to listen to the music. A trap I'm just starting to escape from with all my box swapping in recent years.

    Sent from my BLN-L21 using Tapatalk

  8. #8
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 9,302
    I'm Andrew.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawrence001 View Post
    Because you can get caught up in constantly fiddling around to decide which sounds better and forget to listen to the music. A trap I'm just starting to escape from with all my box swapping in recent years.

    Sent from my BLN-L21 using Tapatalk
    Couldn't agree with you more. I've been selling boxes. I'm happy with my kit. Things in my system haven't changed in years.
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE
    PRE
    Croft Epoch(Modded) AMP Sondex S100 (Modded) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Ref XO + Batpure supertweeters DECK Garrard 301 Mat Teunto Bearings 401(Bastin) Plinth Bamboo Arms 3009/3012 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister II/FGS + Ortofon SPU MONO CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ SpeakerPC Tripple C+WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostages Paradise(4 Box Mega-Modded) / Croft Musicmaker



  9. #9
    Join Date: May 2018

    Location: Woking

    Posts: 803
    I'm Chris.

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    Just IME,

    generally triode mode for acoustic/small arrangement/vocal pieces. Certainly sounds closer to how I presume the original recording sounded.

    They sound amazing with acoustic wind and string instruments.

    UL for larger scale dynamic and rock music. Has more slam, bass and sheer "mass" of sound.

    As you have observed, things can get shrill if directly compared with the tracks you've just auditioned in triode mode.

    But, what you lose in delicacy and charm you should gain in dynamics and scale, at least that is my experience.

    As Anthony points out you are unlikely to get to experience the full merits of both until you have an amp designed for one or 'tother.

    I've got a KT88 amp that puts out 35w in triode and around 50w in UL. I reckon it sounds best in triode 80% of the time but given the music I listen to that's not so surprising. Even taking into account what I said above, It's a good amp in general, so actually sounds better than a lot of dedicated triode/UL amps (under say £1000) simply due to being a better design (and slightly upgraded).

    If you're going to "settle" on one or the other I think its horses for courses depending on your majority music preference.

    Happy listening.

  10. #10
    Join Date: Dec 2008

    Location: East Riding of Yorkshire these days

    Posts: 4,779
    I'm Shaun.

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    Chris, damn fine post and very true. I used to have an SE 300B with Audio Note speakers but found I needed two amps. I now have effectively two amps in one box and have been swapping between the two exactly as you have said. Triode mode is so damn sweet with a huge level of realism but ultralinear has loads of energy and punch. Also, ultralinear has a shedload of air and sparkle that really suits the likes of Ozric Tentacles with their everso reverby, atmospheric sound.

    I still think though that my most perfect amp would be a 300B push pull.

    OMG, that 300B sound.


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