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Thread: Triode or Ultralinear, again

  1. #21
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: U.S.A. Neo-Socialist Kalifornski

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    I found that while triode is great for vocalists and small acoustic sessions, for large scale orchestral recordings it sucks!
    UL has far more body and slam and energizes both the room and soul .
    Jeff :UBERTHREADKILLER

  2. #22
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: South Wales

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    I'm NotTakingLifeTooSeriouslyTheseDays.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goraman View Post
    I found that while triode is great for vocalists and small acoustic sessions, for large scale orchestral recordings it sucks!
    UL has far more body and slam and energizes both the room and soul .
    "Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
    Nikola Tesla



    Its now a conspiracy theory to believe that the Immune system is capable of doing the job it was designed to do.
    A fish is only as healthy as the water its swimming in ! [Dr Robert Young]


    www.tubedistinctions.co.uk

    Matthew 5:10

  3. #23
    Join Date: May 2018

    Location: Woking

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    I'm Chris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haselsh1 View Post
    Amazingly sad loss Chris. I would cry for weeks

    Twas a low point Shaun to put it mildly. However after I finished feeling sorry for myself (about 2 months . . .) I have found a nice synergy with my Quad 63's and a push-pull KT88 amplifier that I would not have happened across had I not been "unlucky" enough to find myself in this situation.

    Does it have the addictive harmonic distortion of the 300b? Not really, certainly not to the extent that makes the 300b magical. However what it has done is give me depth, dynamics and slam that the 300b could only hint at.

    With these speakers and a few other system tweaks I'm actually starting to prefer it . . .

    I will get another worthy 300b one day but to be honest I'm having so much fun messing around with all types of other kit and bits and bobs, its been relegated on my list of priorities.


    Back to the thread - most important is the circuit design that any specific tube is in, however I think the 300b more than most (possibly all) does seem to stamp its sound signature more forcefully than other tube types. I've heard amplifiers which seem to have a linear sound regardless of tubes used and others which sound markedly different when tube rolling. Main examples being a Musical Paradise MP-401 and a (cheaper) EL34 SET.
    Tried different EL34's/6CA7's/KT88's in the Musical Paradise and could barely tell the difference (although all sounded excellent) then tried EL34's/6CA7's/6L6's in the SET and could instantly detect the signatures of all the different tubes.

    Probably because it was comparing a push-pull design with a SET (although there was no lack of detail in the push-pull design). I'm sure Anthony can probably explain why this was the case.

    Cheers,

    Chris

  4. #24
    Join Date: Feb 2008

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    There is definately a diffrence in the way each design topology [push-pull, Single ended] portrays each valve, and the potential characteristics they may have. Single ended amps using All triodes produce low order even harmonics, which as stated in my earlier post are pleasing to our ears, and therefore reletively large amounts [within reason] are tolerable, however, using a pentode/Tetrode in a single ended design will not only produce low order even harmonics,[2nd] but also low order odd harmonics [3rd] too. in a push-pull All triode design, even harmonics are to a degree canceled out, depending on the matching of the devices, and the accuracy of the output transformer etc, in the same amp, using Pentodes/Tetrodes the same even order cancelation occurs, however; because pentodes/tetrodes also produce low order odd harmonics, these are mostly left intact, although can be reduced to a degree with the use of feedback etc, I hope this very brief explanation helps to explain what may be happening in each valve design, when placed in either topology.
    A...
    Quote Originally Posted by Opti-cal View Post
    Twas a low point Shaun to put it mildly. However after I finished feeling sorry for myself (about 2 months . . .) I have found a nice synergy with my Quad 63's and a push-pull KT88 amplifier that I would not have happened across had I not been "unlucky" enough to find myself in this situation.

    Does it have the addictive harmonic distortion of the 300b? Not really, certainly not to the extent that makes the 300b magical. However what it has done is give me depth, dynamics and slam that the 300b could only hint at.

    With these speakers and a few other system tweaks I'm actually starting to prefer it . . .

    I will get another worthy 300b one day but to be honest I'm having so much fun messing around with all types of other kit and bits and bobs, its been relegated on my list of priorities.


    Back to the thread - most important is the circuit design that any specific tube is in, however I think the 300b more than most (possibly all) does seem to stamp its sound signature more forcefully than other tube types. I've heard amplifiers which seem to have a linear sound regardless of tubes used and others which sound markedly different when tube rolling. Main examples being a Musical Paradise MP-401 and a (cheaper) EL34 SET.
    Tried different EL34's/6CA7's/KT88's in the Musical Paradise and could barely tell the difference (although all sounded excellent) then tried EL34's/6CA7's/6L6's in the SET and could instantly detect the signatures of all the different tubes.

    Probably because it was comparing a push-pull design with a SET (although there was no lack of detail in the push-pull design). I'm sure Anthony can probably explain why this was the case.

    Cheers,

    Chris
    "Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
    Nikola Tesla



    Its now a conspiracy theory to believe that the Immune system is capable of doing the job it was designed to do.
    A fish is only as healthy as the water its swimming in ! [Dr Robert Young]


    www.tubedistinctions.co.uk

    Matthew 5:10

  5. #25
    Join Date: May 2018

    Location: Woking

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    I'm Chris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyTD View Post
    I hope this very brief explanation helps to explain what may be happening in each valve design, when placed in either topology.
    A...
    Indeed it does Anthony, thanks very much for your insight.

    Nice one.

  6. #26
    Join Date: Feb 2008

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    Of course we also have the added complication of the type of class each valve is run in, for eg, conventional Single ended amps using Triodes, pentodes, and tetrodes are inherently class A, this means they draw all the current needed for a specific power output all of the time, where as push-pull amps using the same types of valves can be run anywhere between class B, class A,B, right into class A, depending on the goal required.
    A...
    Quote Originally Posted by Opti-cal View Post
    Indeed it does Anthony, thanks very much for your insight.

    Nice one.
    "Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
    Nikola Tesla



    Its now a conspiracy theory to believe that the Immune system is capable of doing the job it was designed to do.
    A fish is only as healthy as the water its swimming in ! [Dr Robert Young]


    www.tubedistinctions.co.uk

    Matthew 5:10

  7. #27
    Join Date: Sep 2014

    Location: brighton uk.

    Posts: 4,737
    I'm jamie.

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    When you checked over the John wood amp what was that? Class a or a/b
    Mine makes 112 watts or so the engineer said.
    My System
    John Wood KT88 Amp.
    Paradise Phono Stage
    Sony TTS-8000 Turntable.
    PMAT-1010 MK6 Tonearm.
    Ortofon Cadenza Bronze
    Sony X555ES Cd Player
    Yamaha NS1000m Speakers

  8. #28
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: South Wales

    Posts: 9,151
    I'm NotTakingLifeTooSeriouslyTheseDays.

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    The amp in question was a grid biased amp, so its bias point was inbetween B and A, depending on what power output John wanted from it.
    A...
    Quote Originally Posted by karma67 View Post
    When you checked over the John wood amp what was that? Class a or a/b
    Mine makes 112 watts or so the engineer said.
    "Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
    Nikola Tesla



    Its now a conspiracy theory to believe that the Immune system is capable of doing the job it was designed to do.
    A fish is only as healthy as the water its swimming in ! [Dr Robert Young]


    www.tubedistinctions.co.uk

    Matthew 5:10

  9. #29
    Join Date: Sep 2014

    Location: brighton uk.

    Posts: 4,737
    I'm jamie.

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    ah,i was told mine (which i believe is the same design) was ultralinear,so does that mean you can control the class A or A/B by adjusting the tube bias?
    if you dont mind me asking what bias would you run GEC kt88's at? i have them at 35
    My System
    John Wood KT88 Amp.
    Paradise Phono Stage
    Sony TTS-8000 Turntable.
    PMAT-1010 MK6 Tonearm.
    Ortofon Cadenza Bronze
    Sony X555ES Cd Player
    Yamaha NS1000m Speakers

  10. #30
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: South Wales

    Posts: 9,151
    I'm NotTakingLifeTooSeriouslyTheseDays.

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    The amp can still be ultra-linear output, it does not dictate the bias setting etc.
    As for the bias setting of the GEC KT88's, well, again' it would depend on the HT Voltage, and what class of operation the amp is designed to work at.
    Quote Originally Posted by karma67 View Post
    ah,i was told mine (which i believe is the same design) was ultralinear,so does that mean you can control the class A or A/B by adjusting the tube bias?
    if you dont mind me asking what bias would you run GEC kt88's at? i have them at 35
    "Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
    Nikola Tesla



    Its now a conspiracy theory to believe that the Immune system is capable of doing the job it was designed to do.
    A fish is only as healthy as the water its swimming in ! [Dr Robert Young]


    www.tubedistinctions.co.uk

    Matthew 5:10

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