Passive Preamps

[Marco]

We all do Marco. The claim of SA's adding distortion and LDRs not, needed to be challenged.

Ultimately, as I've said elsewhere, I actually think a bit of distortion is not always a bad thing. Look at valve amps!

Indeed, although ALL amps distort, to some degree, and in different ways

If you want to talk about distortion, look at vinyl, never mind valve amps! And yet, done well, it can produce some of the most beautiful sounds we hear....

Marco.

[Bigman80]

Indeed, although ALL amps distort, to some degree, and in different ways

Marco.

Oh, absolutely. Yet in a recent A/B test where I removed my preamp for a direct connection to the source, I far preferred it with the Preamp in situ!

[Marco]

Not surprised, simply because your system hasn't been designed around a 'pot in a box'. I heard the same as you, in my system, and reached the same conclusion. That doesn't mean it can't work well, though.

Btw, on (slightly) related subject, I've been reading some of your views on AA about valve amps, and your conclusion that they can't 'do bass' as well as SS designs...

Well, that only applies up until you spend sufficient money (around £5k and above) on a top-notch, reasonably powerful (say 30-50W) push-pull valve amp, featuring the use of large output-valves, such as KT120s or 150s, and good enough (and big enough) mains and output transformers.

My TD Copper amp, and others like it, such as the John Wood, fit the bill. Do that, and crucially, *match* the valve amp properly with the right speakers, and the bass produced will be just as good as that from your Krell, trust me!

Marco.

[Bigman80]

Not surprised, simply because your system hasn't been designed around a 'pot in a box'. I heard the same as you, in my system, and reached the same conclusion. That doesn't mean it can't work well, though.

Btw, on (slightly) related subject, I've been reading some of your views on AA about valve amps, and your conclusion that they can't 'do bass' as well as SS designs...

Well, that only applies up until you spend sufficient money (around £5k and above) on a top-notch, reasonably powerful (say 30-50W) push-pull valve amp, featuring the use of large output-valves, such as KT120s or 150s, and good enough (and big enough) mains and output transformers.

My TD Copper amp, and others like it, such as the John Wood, fit the bill. Do that, and crucially, *match* the valve amp properly with the right speakers, and the bass produced will be just as good as that from your Krell, trust me!

Marco.

Well, if I were to spend £5k on a Valve amp I'd expect it to do bass right, as well as everything else!

Thing is you can get solid state amps (see Krell) that does everything right (imo) for £1.5k so having valves, and there continued expense in the replenishment of valves means having a Valve amp of sufficient quality no longer appeals to me.

Your amps and those by the TD are what I'd call, prestige items. Not for us working class types lol.

Seriously, I don't doubt the performance but, don't doubt the performance of the Krell, especially now that I've dealt with a few things like speaker cables and giving the speakers (uncouth as they may be, Macca ) better stands to help.

The only thing I lack is the room to really get the very last bits out of this system.

Putting the system together, I didn't have a plan, hence the multiple boxes passing through my house. What I did was listen to as much as I could and try to find what I wanted from both listening to those pieces and the pieces other people have in their systems. I don't think there's many folks who have been as active in their pursuit of equipment to listen to as I have!

The preamp situation was a development. At every stage, when one piece was improved, it revealed an issue else where. As Hans Beekhuyzen said, "if one piece of the chain is below standard, it will be revealed". He's spot on and as the source and amplification got better, the preamps were getting to be the weak link. I've tried possibly everything, in terms of type. TVC, AVC, Passive, Passive Stepped Attenuators, Valve Pre, Active SS Pre, Active SS SA's and LDR, The Truth Preamp - Not sure exactly what that was.

I found the DCB1 did everything I was looking for. Almost like it just captures the best bits from all of the previous preamps is tried.

From there, came the Krell which has revolutionised my listening experience. The Krell, being an absolute top class amplifier, enable (Finally) the use of Digital.

What I'd say to ANYONE starting on this journey is:

Get the best Preamp and Amplification you can from the off. WITHOUT that, nothing else can really show it's ability.

[Marco]

Can't really argue with any of that dude, and I'm sure that the Krell sounds great... My point was not to create or believe in absolutes: valves = soggy bass, SS = hard & soulless, digital = bright and hard, analogue = euphonic and coloured, etc, etc.

Quite simply, it's bullshit, as indeed you eventually find out from experience, once you hear any of the above at its best!

Marco.

[Bigman80]

Can't really argue with any of that dude, and I'm sure that the Krell sounds great... My point was not to create or believe in absolutes: valves = soggy bass, SS = hard & soulless, digital = bright and hard, analogue = euphonic and coloured, etc, etc.

Quite simply, it's bullshit, as indeed you eventually find out from experience, once you hear any of the above at its best!

Marco.

No, absolutes can never be defined because there always one think bucks the trend.

I was talking from a perspective of the Budget in which most of are working. Obviously, as pieces get higher in quality, those parameters of performance with change. If I had £1.5k to spend, I don't think there's a Valve amp out there that would sufficiently compare to the Krell for my taste. BUT I am never one to say it can't happen.

[Marco]

I'd have to be a DIY job, not designed to be sold on, so that every penny was spent on where it mattered most, otherwise no.

Marco.

[karma67]

I'd have to be a DIY job, not designed to be sold on, so that every penny was spent on where it mattered most, otherwise no.

Marco.

Which brings us nicely back to John wood amps

[karma67]

Whilst we are on the subject of valve amps, Marco have you ever heard the gec kt88 valves and if so are they that much better than modern kt88s? I ask because I’m about to buy some.

[Marco]

Which brings us nicely back to John wood amps

Great amp. Don't know how he does it for the money asked!

Marco.