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Thread: My Denon DL-103 journey (long boring rant, had to get it off my chest)

  1. #1
    Join Date: May 2010

    Location: Vancouver, Canada

    Posts: 2,166
    I'm Alex.

    Default My Denon DL-103 journey (long boring rant, had to get it off my chest)

    About 2.5 - 3 years ago, I came to the realization that no matter how many upgrades I continue making to my digital front end, I will never get to the point where I actually enjoy digital playback. So I decided to go back to the roots, back to the fundamentals -- vinyl. After all, early on my love for music started with my love affair with vinyl.

    This time around I decided to start from the very instrument that makes music -- the cartridge. And because I've never had a chance to experiment with moving coil cartridges, I started doing research on MC carts. Of course, no discussion on MC carts can occur without involving Denon DL-103. I quickly realized the almost mythical status of that cart, and because the price was right, I ordered one.

    When it arrived, I began the search for a turntable and the phono preamp that would host this little cart. Some people recommended Technics SL-1200, but these tables were not so easy to find in a decent condition. Besides, some other people in the know advised that SL-1200 may not be precise enough for DL-103. So I continued my search for a vintage table. Eventually settled on Systemdek IIX (a poor man's Linn Sondek LP12) with Rega RB300 arm. The seller threw in Project Phono Box DC with a hand made SUT.

    When I mounted DL-103 and gave it a spin, I was pleasantly surprised by the forcefulness of the presentation. It did deliver a lot of body and presence to the playback. Right there I knew that I made the right decision to abandon digital and go back to analog.

    After living for a few weeks with that configuration, I started feeling that something was lacking in the sound quality, so I decided to upgrade the phono. Ordered Emotiva XPS-1, and indeed that little phono noticeably improved the sound. Still, after spending a few months with the new configuration, I was not satisfied with the overall delivery. It felt a bit brittle, and glaring, and the finer details were kind of missing. I started looking for the alternative components for my analog chain.

    After receiving a few suggestions, I decided to try a different cart, something that would give me less glaring sound, with more details. Settled on Ortofon OM20, which has a nude elliptical stylus. And indeed, the moment I mounted OM20 on RB300, it became obvious that many previously missing details are now fully present. I was kind of satisfied with the upgrade, but the sound, although detailed, was still glaring and a bit glassy/metallic.

    I then upgraded my phono to iFi Micro iPhono 2. That upgrade took the playback to a completely new level. So at that point, I was very satisfied with the configuration; the metallic, glassy and glaring sound was all but gone. Much more pleasant listening experience.

    Unfortunately (or fortunately, as it later turned out), I managed to damage RB300 while transporting my turntable. I replaced it with Jelco SA-750E 10 inch arm. I mounted OM20 on Jelco, and was happy to notice that the sound in the new configuration got better. However, because Jelco being a 10 inch arm was mounted on an armboard machined for a 9 inch RB300, the geometry was off. So I ordered a custom made armboard for Jelco. The armboard was machined from plexiglass, and when it arrived and I installed it, I for some crazy reason decided to try it with DL-103.

    And that's when the unexpected happened. Although I had previously clearly demonstrated to myself that replacing conical stylus cart with nude elliptical stylus cart definitely provides much more finer details, going back to the conical stylus all of a sudden completely destroyed the nude elliptical stylus! Denon DL-103 is now delivering way more finer details than Ortofon OM20 ever could.

    My conclusion is that DL-103 was obviously a very poor match in my configuration with Rega RB300 arm. It was severely underperforming on RB300, while Ortofon OM20 was a much better fit, so it easily beat DL-103. But on a better arm (Jelco, obviously a better fit for DL-103), OM20 lost on all aspects. And I use the word 'lost' to avoid any hint of a hyperbole, while in actuality a much better description would be 'DL-103 totally DESTROYED OM20 on Jelco 10 inch tonearm!'

    OK, so after this long winded retelling of my journey, I get to the real point of my post: Denon DL-103 has now completely transformed my experience of listening to music playback. This last adjustment (setting it on Jelco SA-750E arm with properly designed armboard) created a very unique presentation of the music playback. I'm sharing this with you because I have never heard anything like the sound I'm now getting out of this cart. It is hard to put into words what's different, so I feel forced to reach for some analogies (I'll be probably stretching the analogy too thin here, so I apologize in advance):

    Long time ago, when I first visited France, I had an eye opening experience regarding their food. Before visiting France, I was never much into food, to be honest. But trying their specialty food items had awaken a new sensual perception in me. So for example, I remember trying for the first time tart au citron (lemon tart) in Paris. It was a crazy experience, because not only did I taste lemon, eggs and butter, I was actually tasting something else, something that has no name. It's the quality that results from a well assembled compound where the final result is larger than the sum of its parts.

    In a similar fashion, when I now listen to records using DL-103, I hear something that is larger than the sum of the instruments and vocals that comprise the recording. And I've never heard such thing before. So that new quality with no name, that now emerged from my system, is so bloody seductive, that I completely forget about instruments, forget about vocals, forget about soundstage and imaging, and am just soaking in this divine substance that is washing over me.

    I know this sounds stupid crazy, but that's the revelation that hit me with this new configuration with DL-103. If I now put some other cartridge on (I've tried Ortofon and Audio Technica), I absolutely do not get even a trace of that new presentation. I get a good old familiar 'hi fi' sound where what attracts my attention is the precise imaging, sizeable soundstage, finer textures of voices and instruments, and so on. Switching back to DL-103, all those facets become secondary, because that elusive 'tone' commands full attention, and is centre stage.

    Just to be pedantic, I started visiting friends with good audio systems, and listening to their configurations. None of that elusive quality was to be found on other systems I've carefully listened to. I even visited some local high end audio stores and spent some time listening to their flagship 'statement' systems, none of the magical quality could be detected. Just a very respectable, very convincing hi fi delivery, with loads of details, vast soundstage, razor sharp imaging, etc.

    I've now concluded that what I have in my listening room is not so much a music reproduction chain, as basically a new musical instrument. Something that makes sound using a piece of rotating plastic. Blast!

    Sorry for the long rant, and thanks for reading...
    Don't you just hate it when you cannot detect where the post ends and a signature line begins?

    Alex.

  2. #2
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 9,302
    I'm Andrew.

    Default

    Interesting reading and I can associate with a lot of what you say.
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE
    PRE
    Croft Epoch(Modded) AMP Sondex S100 (Modded) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Ref XO + Batpure supertweeters DECK Garrard 301 Mat Teunto Bearings 401(Bastin) Plinth Bamboo Arms 3009/3012 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister II/FGS + Ortofon SPU MONO CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ SpeakerPC Tripple C+WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostages Paradise(4 Box Mega-Modded) / Croft Musicmaker



  3. #3
    Join Date: Sep 2014

    Location: brighton uk.

    Posts: 4,737
    I'm jamie.

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    yep me to,i was very happy with my 103 SA but ultimately it lost out in fine detail to my AT-ART7.
    My System
    John Wood KT88 Amp.
    Paradise Phono Stage
    Sony TTS-8000 Turntable.
    PMAT-1010 MK6 Tonearm.
    Ortofon Cadenza Bronze
    Sony X555ES Cd Player
    Yamaha NS1000m Speakers

  4. #4
    Bigman80 Guest

    Default

    I have tried most of the range I think, barring variations of the various cartridges, 103,103r,301,304, DLS1.

    Can't say I'd buy another of any of them again. I suppose it all depends on what you want from vinyl.

    At least replacing your cartridge will be cheap and the joy you're getting is worth the price.

    Enjoy!

  5. #5
    Join Date: Jul 2010

    Location: Cheltenham

    Posts: 982
    I'm Charlie.

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    I bought an used 103C1 a few months ago on AoS to try in my study system. Last week, it came back from Wyndham Hodgson at ESCo, with the sapphire cantilever and paratrace tip rebuild (currently £330). Tracking at 2.2 g in a bog standard 1210 Mk2 and plugged into a Lentek integrated. It's astonishingly good for what it owes me.

    Only had a handful of hours on it, but it has all the drive and bass, but with more refined mids and top end. Tracks better too (at 2.2g).
    R2R: Studer A820 1/2 inch 2 track; Otari MTR-12 1/4 inch 2 track; Sony APR 5003; Sony APR 5002; Studer A807/II. Vinyl: Platine Verdier Allaerts MC1B/Schroeder Reference & Model 2 Decca C4E/Hadcock 228 TRON Seven Reference phono. Keith Monks MkII RCM Other analogue source: Nakamichi Dragon with ANT4066 mods. Amplification: TRON Meteor preamp TRON Voyager 20B SET power. Speakers: Avantgarde Duo. Digital: computing at last with Prism Sound Lyra 2 A2D converter

  6. #6
    Join Date: May 2010

    Location: Vancouver, Canada

    Posts: 2,166
    I'm Alex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigman80 View Post
    I have tried most of the range I think, barring variations of the various cartridges, 103,103r,301,304, DLS1.

    Can't say I'd buy another of any of them again. I suppose it all depends on what you want from vinyl.

    At least replacing your cartridge will be cheap and the joy you're getting is worth the price.

    Enjoy!
    Thanks. I was in the same boat as you after I replaced DL-103 with Ortofon MM cart. I kept the Denon thinking that maybe I could give it to my son once he decides to go with vinyl. Then, on a lark, decided to give it one more go with the new tonearm, and bam! -- it opened up.

    I guess the moral of the story is you never know what kind of a weird combo might open up some ho-hum audio component. It sometimes pays to mess around a little bit before you ebay it.
    Don't you just hate it when you cannot detect where the post ends and a signature line begins?

    Alex.

  7. #7
    Join Date: Jul 2010

    Location: Cheltenham

    Posts: 982
    I'm Charlie.

    Default

    I think that this highlights the issue about cartridges. On shouldn't look at cartridges alone. The most important items in the audio chain are the two sets of transducers - the front end (cartridge) and the back end (speakers).

    Getting the transducers to work at their optimum depends on other factors. For cartridges, the crucial issue is the interaction with the arm - vibration transmission (and the effect of damping), bearing chatter, as well as resonant frequency of tonearm/cartridge (cartridge compliance, total effective mass etc). Every cartridge has a sweet spot, and the 103 is no different. You just have to find it in your own system.
    R2R: Studer A820 1/2 inch 2 track; Otari MTR-12 1/4 inch 2 track; Sony APR 5003; Sony APR 5002; Studer A807/II. Vinyl: Platine Verdier Allaerts MC1B/Schroeder Reference & Model 2 Decca C4E/Hadcock 228 TRON Seven Reference phono. Keith Monks MkII RCM Other analogue source: Nakamichi Dragon with ANT4066 mods. Amplification: TRON Meteor preamp TRON Voyager 20B SET power. Speakers: Avantgarde Duo. Digital: computing at last with Prism Sound Lyra 2 A2D converter

  8. #8
    Bigman80 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by magiccarpetride View Post
    Thanks. I was in the same boat as you after I replaced DL-103 with Ortofon MM cart. I kept the Denon thinking that maybe I could give it to my son once he decides to go with vinyl. Then, on a lark, decided to give it one more go with the new tonearm, and bam! -- it opened up.

    I guess the moral of the story is you never know what kind of a weird combo might open up some ho-hum audio component. It sometimes pays to mess around a little bit before you ebay it.
    It's definitely down to what arm gets the best from the cartridge and vice versa.

    For me, I have a really good combination and I know what line of progress to follow.

    Synergy, that's what we've got, just gone about it differently!

  9. #9
    Bigman80 Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by topoxforddoc View Post
    I think that this highlights the issue about cartridges. On shouldn't look at cartridges alone. The most important items in the audio chain are the two sets of transducers - the front end (cartridge) and the back end (speakers).

    Getting the transducers to work at their optimum depends on other factors. For cartridges, the crucial issue is the interaction with the arm - vibration transmission (and the effect of damping), bearing chatter, as well as resonant frequency of tonearm/cartridge (cartridge compliance, total effective mass etc). Every cartridge has a sweet spot, and the 103 is no different. You just have to find it in your own system.
    Agreed. Well put too!

  10. #10
    Join Date: Apr 2016

    Location: London

    Posts: 377
    I'm Richard.

    Wink

    I think that this highlights the issue about cartridges. On shouldn't look at cartridges alone. The most important items in the audio chain are the two sets of transducers - the front end (cartridge) and the back end (speakers).

    Getting the transducers to work at their optimum depends on other factors. For cartridges, the crucial issue is the interaction with the arm - vibration transmission (and the effect of damping), bearing chatter, as well as resonant frequency of tonearm/cartridge (cartridge compliance, total effective mass etc). Every cartridge has a sweet spot, and the 103 is no different. You just have to find it in your own system.

    It's definitely down to what arm gets the best from the cartridge and vice versa. ......

    Synergy,..

    Totally agree with these points. They're not forgotten but often overlooked. Everyone's system & room are different & will probably bring different results when changing one component for another.
    I feel any opinion about a piece of kit is maybe a fair guideline but not absolute. You've just got to put it in your own set up to truly know.
    Glad your happy MagicCarpet (I hope your not taking us on a) Ride!

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