My System:
Amplification - Sansui AU-alpha 707 DR
Turntable - Technics SP10 MK2-Technics EPA-250 Tonearm-Yannis Tome 423.5Plus tonearm cable-Eichmann KLEI Absolute Harmony plugs.
Ortofon Cadenza Black moving coil cartridge-Fritz Gyger S re-tip. Panzerholz plinth.
CDP - Pioneer PD-91
Speakers - Spendor D7 on Soundcare SuperSpikes
QED Silver Spiral speaker cable-airloc banana plugs
Mains - Ultra Pure silver plated un-switched socket-Missing link EPS 500 silver plated plugs-Hi-Fi Tuning gold plated silver ceramic 13 amp fuses
Location: Forest of Dean
Posts: 643
I'm Gary.
I will start by admitting that I have never used a fancy fuse so have no first hand experience of them, however I've never stuck my hand in a mincer either but I still know it would do some serious damage.
I simply cannot fathom how or why a fuse can have any effect whatsoever on sound, I don't doubt that people genuinely believe they have heard an improvement but what is different about an "audiophile" fuse compared to a basic 4 for 99p fuse from B&Q. A well known purveyor of dubious audio improvement products (whose initials are RA) suggests (he can't directly claim) that wiping fuses with his magic solution might somehow do something or other. All a fuse is is a piece of wire, designed to melt at a certain ampage, inside a glass tube with a metal cap at each end, that really doesn't leave you much to play around with in terms of design or materials.
Even assuming it is possible to somehow make a fuse "alter" the electricity going through it, that electricity then has to travel through many cables and components, most importantly the unit's transformer which totally alters the voltage and current and changes it from AC to DC, before it gets anywhere near anything that converts the electricity into sound.
Taking that into account can anyone explain how these super fuses do what they do?
Marantz CD63 KI Signature
Project Debut II
Pioneer A656 Reference
Epos M5s
Atacama Stands
Maplin speaker cable cos I can't hear a difference
Various interconnects as above
Location: North Island New Zealand
Posts: 1,757
I'm Chris.
Regarding super fuses, I understand this as a super duper marketing effort to convince the masses, but very little actual science to back up the marketing
Fuses and the way they interface with AC and also DC, are a serious subject to themselves, to those manufacturers who patiently follow their correct traditional construction.
Transformers following the standard fuse require diodes followed by capacitors at a minimum,( but also inductors are good to use ) to convert AC to DC
Location: Forest of Dean
Posts: 643
I'm Gary.
My, admittedly limited, understanding of transformers is that the primary and secondary coils totally isolate the incoming current from the outgoing current (inductive?) surely this means that not only has this converted it from ac to dc but the voltage and current are different, doesn't this mean that any "effect" a fuse or cable may have before the transformer has been totally lost in the conversion?
Marantz CD63 KI Signature
Project Debut II
Pioneer A656 Reference
Epos M5s
Atacama Stands
Maplin speaker cable cos I can't hear a difference
Various interconnects as above
Location: North Island New Zealand
Posts: 1,757
I'm Chris.
A transformer indeed has primary and secondary windings. A typical expression is 240v primary supplying 12v AC x2 @ a particular current rating VA ( volt Ampere )
However to convert from AC to DC is usually done with diodes in the majority of equipment, but alternatives are valve rectifiers, mosfets, thyristors or purpose built
integrated circuits like the LT4320 that requires 4 x N channel mosfets.
The diodes switch the incoming AC supply to provide a partial rectification to DC - but rely heavily on capacitors and better with inductors and capacitors to
provide Direct Current ( DC). There is relationship usually expressed as requiring 1000uf of capacitance for every DC amp of current drawn. Nice variations
on this are to use the current gain characteristic of a semiconductor (hfe) to multiply capacitance.
Within the topic of rectifiers there are half wave ( not recommended for any audio purpose ) or full wave rectifiers
A really good supply will have initial rectification best done with mosfets and thyristors rather than diodes, then satisfy the 1000uf of capacitance for every DC amp of current drawn.
It will then have inductance to counter capacitance ( the two working well together ) and use a capacitance multiplier, and typically regulation of current more so than voltage.
The equipment being supplied current will have particular needs to be met ie voltage or current regulation or combinations of each.
There will also be polarity requirements from the rectification to supply positive voltages or negative voltages or both - seen in the majority of amplifiers. (The Quad 303 being an exception which is
just positive rail ) Where two polarities are required this is best done with discrete rectifiers for each polarity, and even better for each channel derived from separate transformers.
This of course describes Linear supplies , switch mode are quite different https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switch...e_power_supply
Location: North Island New Zealand
Posts: 1,757
I'm Chris.
Sorry I missed your ending question. A fuse itself has almost no resistance, and electrically can be viewed as a current rated piece of wire to any given circuit. Its requirements are to
cease its connectivity when a current greater than its rating is being passed from the load ( be that a direct short or variations less than a short ) As such a fuse really has no
electrical characteristic other than tiny amounts of resistance of its own. Measure fuse super duper for resistance vs ordinary fuse with same current rating in each, If its a fuse
being sold - it will have resistance of 0.00 ohms or very close to that.
Yes, it is being swamped by other electrical characteristics from nearby transformers with inductance and to a degree some capacitance internal
in the transformer itself. A transformers internal wiring is for instance many thousands of times longer.
For a fuse to be any different requires some declaration of a component or electrical characteristic that it claims as benefit to passing AC - I cannot see this occurring in a so called super duper fuse at all
hence it is more likely a marketing exercise.
I recently bought a bag of ferrite chokes and put them on everything. There's still loads of them left over. Unlike the fancy fuses they cost next to nothing so why not? I could not discern any difference in sound quality. I suppose it is possible that I did not have a problem to solve.
Current Lash Up:
TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.
Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes.
Analog Inputs: Pro-Ject Signature 10 TT & arm, Benz Micro LP-S, Michel Cusis MC, Goldring 2500 and Ortofon Rondo Blue cartridges, Hitachi FT5500 mk2 Tuner
Digital:- Marantz SA-KI Pearl CD player, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi+ Pro, Buffalo NAS Drive
Amplification:- AudioValve Sunilda phono stage, Krell KSP-7B pre-amp, Krell KSA-80 power amp
Output: Wilson Benesch Vector speakers, KLH Ultimate One Headphones
Cables: Tellurium Q Ultra Black II RCA & Chord Epic 2 RCA, various speaker leads, & links
I think I am nearing audio nirvana, but don’t tell anyone.
on face of it, that would seem likely, but people, who are often relatively skeptical have found that they do make a difference, so who knows....
Regards,
Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse
I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work.... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
FIIO K7 BT, M11 PLUS, BTR7, KA5 - OPPO BDP-103D - PANASONIC UB450 - PANASONIC 4K ULTRA HD TV - PIXEL 6 - AVANTREE LR BLUETOOTH - 2* X600 SOUNDCORE - HEADPHONES INCLUDE, FIIO, NURAPHONES', FOCAL, OPPO, BOSE, CAMBRIDGE, BOWER & WILKINS, DEVIALET, MARSHALL, SONY, MITCHELL & JOHNSTON - 2*ZBOOK'S- MERCURY BD ROM, ROON, QOBUZ, TIDAL, PLEX, CYBERLINK, JRIVER - MULTI HDD'S -
Oh my god! There's nothing wrong with the bidet is there?
“Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test. It is the glory of Lincoln that, having almost absolute power, he never abused it, except on the side of mercy".
“You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”
"You don't have free will. You have the appearance of free will.”
“There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!”
***SMILE, BE HAPPY***
Location: gone
Posts: 11,519
I'm gone.
Yes, that matches my experience with ferrite chokes. Bugger all difference.
I do hear differences with fuses, though - some of the cheaper hifi ones just seem to make the sound brighter so whether you like it or not depends on where you want the tonal balance to be headed.
Others (more expensive, sadly, like the SR ones) do seem to me to make an improvement all round - imaging, dynamics etc).
I went through an enthusiastic fuse period, but I can't be bothered with it now.
--- I think the break point for me came when I included a mains lead with an expensive SR fuse in with some gear I sold on ebay without realising it.
Kind of put me off the whole thing.
.