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Thread: My recent experiences with synegistic research fuses

  1. #21
    Join Date: Apr 2011

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    I'm Robert.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RMutt View Post
    I'd be more worried of the danger of Mrs Mutt finding out how much I paid for some fuses!
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  2. #22
    Join Date: Oct 2018

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    I'm Gary.

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    I will start by admitting that I have never used a fancy fuse so have no first hand experience of them, however I've never stuck my hand in a mincer either but I still know it would do some serious damage.

    I simply cannot fathom how or why a fuse can have any effect whatsoever on sound, I don't doubt that people genuinely believe they have heard an improvement but what is different about an "audiophile" fuse compared to a basic 4 for 99p fuse from B&Q. A well known purveyor of dubious audio improvement products (whose initials are RA) suggests (he can't directly claim) that wiping fuses with his magic solution might somehow do something or other. All a fuse is is a piece of wire, designed to melt at a certain ampage, inside a glass tube with a metal cap at each end, that really doesn't leave you much to play around with in terms of design or materials.

    Even assuming it is possible to somehow make a fuse "alter" the electricity going through it, that electricity then has to travel through many cables and components, most importantly the unit's transformer which totally alters the voltage and current and changes it from AC to DC, before it gets anywhere near anything that converts the electricity into sound.

    Taking that into account can anyone explain how these super fuses do what they do?
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  3. #23
    Join Date: Sep 2013

    Location: North Island New Zealand

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    I'm Chris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
    I will start by admitting that I have never used a fancy fuse so have no first hand experience of them, however I've never stuck my hand in a mincer either but I still know it would do some serious damage.

    I simply cannot fathom how or why a fuse can have any effect whatsoever on sound, I don't doubt that people genuinely believe they have heard an improvement but what is different about an "audiophile" fuse compared to a basic 4 for 99p fuse from B&Q. A well known purveyor of dubious audio improvement products (whose initials are RA) suggests (he can't directly claim) that wiping fuses with his magic solution might somehow do something or other. All a fuse is is a piece of wire, designed to melt at a certain ampage, inside a glass tube with a metal cap at each end, that really doesn't leave you much to play around with in terms of design or materials.

    Even assuming it is possible to somehow make a fuse "alter" the electricity going through it, that electricity then has to travel through many cables and components, most importantly the unit's transformer which totally alters the voltage and current and changes it from AC to DC, before it gets anywhere near anything that converts the electricity into sound.

    Taking that into account can anyone explain how these super fuses do what they do?
    Regarding super fuses, I understand this as a super duper marketing effort to convince the masses, but very little actual science to back up the marketing
    Fuses and the way they interface with AC and also DC, are a serious subject to themselves, to those manufacturers who patiently follow their correct traditional construction.

    Transformers following the standard fuse require diodes followed by capacitors at a minimum,( but also inductors are good to use ) to convert AC to DC

  4. #24
    Join Date: Oct 2018

    Location: Forest of Dean

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    I'm Gary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Light Dependant Resistor View Post
    Regarding super fuses, I understand this as a super duper marketing effort to convince the masses, but very little actual science to back up the marketing
    Fuses and the way they interface with AC and also DC, are a serious subject to themselves, to those manufacturers who patiently follow their correct traditional construction.

    Transformers following the standard fuse require diodes followed by capacitors at a minimum,( but also inductors are good to use ) to convert AC to DC
    My, admittedly limited, understanding of transformers is that the primary and secondary coils totally isolate the incoming current from the outgoing current (inductive?) surely this means that not only has this converted it from ac to dc but the voltage and current are different, doesn't this mean that any "effect" a fuse or cable may have before the transformer has been totally lost in the conversion?
    Marantz CD63 KI Signature
    Project Debut II
    Pioneer A656 Reference
    Epos M5s
    Atacama Stands
    Maplin speaker cable cos I can't hear a difference
    Various interconnects as above

  5. #25
    Join Date: Sep 2013

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
    My, admittedly limited, understanding of transformers is that the primary and secondary coils totally isolate the incoming current from the outgoing current (inductive?) surely this means that not only has this converted it from ac to dc but the voltage and current are different, doesn't this mean that any "effect" a fuse or cable may have before the transformer has been totally lost in the conversion?
    A transformer indeed has primary and secondary windings. A typical expression is 240v primary supplying 12v AC x2 @ a particular current rating VA ( volt Ampere )
    However to convert from AC to DC is usually done with diodes in the majority of equipment, but alternatives are valve rectifiers, mosfets, thyristors or purpose built
    integrated circuits like the LT4320 that requires 4 x N channel mosfets.

    The diodes switch the incoming AC supply to provide a partial rectification to DC - but rely heavily on capacitors and better with inductors and capacitors to
    provide Direct Current ( DC). There is relationship usually expressed as requiring 1000uf of capacitance for every DC amp of current drawn. Nice variations
    on this are to use the current gain characteristic of a semiconductor (hfe) to multiply capacitance.

    Within the topic of rectifiers there are half wave ( not recommended for any audio purpose ) or full wave rectifiers

    A really good supply will have initial rectification best done with mosfets and thyristors rather than diodes, then satisfy the 1000uf of capacitance for every DC amp of current drawn.
    It will then have inductance to counter capacitance ( the two working well together ) and use a capacitance multiplier, and typically regulation of current more so than voltage.
    The equipment being supplied current will have particular needs to be met ie voltage or current regulation or combinations of each.

    There will also be polarity requirements from the rectification to supply positive voltages or negative voltages or both - seen in the majority of amplifiers. (The Quad 303 being an exception which is
    just positive rail ) Where two polarities are required this is best done with discrete rectifiers for each polarity, and even better for each channel derived from separate transformers.

    This of course describes Linear supplies , switch mode are quite different https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switch...e_power_supply

  6. #26
    Join Date: Sep 2013

    Location: North Island New Zealand

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    I'm Chris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
    My, admittedly limited, understanding of transformers is that the primary and secondary coils totally isolate the incoming current from the outgoing current (inductive?) surely this means that not only has this converted it from ac to dc but the voltage and current are different, doesn't this mean that any "effect" a fuse or cable may have before the transformer has been totally lost in the conversion?
    Sorry I missed your ending question. A fuse itself has almost no resistance, and electrically can be viewed as a current rated piece of wire to any given circuit. Its requirements are to
    cease its connectivity when a current greater than its rating is being passed from the load ( be that a direct short or variations less than a short ) As such a fuse really has no
    electrical characteristic other than tiny amounts of resistance of its own. Measure fuse super duper for resistance vs ordinary fuse with same current rating in each, If its a fuse
    being sold - it will have resistance of 0.00 ohms or very close to that.

    Yes, it is being swamped by other electrical characteristics from nearby transformers with inductance and to a degree some capacitance internal
    in the transformer itself. A transformers internal wiring is for instance many thousands of times longer.

    For a fuse to be any different requires some declaration of a component or electrical characteristic that it claims as benefit to passing AC - I cannot see this occurring in a so called super duper fuse at all
    hence it is more likely a marketing exercise.

  7. #27
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

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    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeMusic View Post
    Er, ferrite chokes ?
    They are on everything else, not the system
    Freeview box
    Amazon Firestick
    Postable phones
    This laptop PSU
    Fridge
    Broadband router
    Any 6 way adaptor in the house ans who knows what might be plugged in
    Plus, plus
    I recently bought a bag of ferrite chokes and put them on everything. There's still loads of them left over. Unlike the fancy fuses they cost next to nothing so why not? I could not discern any difference in sound quality. I suppose it is possible that I did not have a problem to solve.
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  8. #28
    Join Date: Nov 2011

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    I'm Adrian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Light Dependant Resistor View Post
    Sorry I missed your ending question. A fuse itself has almost no resistance, and electrically can be viewed as a current rated piece of wire to any given circuit. Its requirements are to
    cease its connectivity when a current greater than its rating is being passed from the load ( be that a direct short or variations less than a short ) As such a fuse really has no
    electrical characteristic other than tiny amounts of resistance of its own. Measure fuse super duper for resistance vs ordinary fuse with same current rating in each, If its a fuse
    being sold - it will have resistance of 0.00 ohms or very close to that.

    Yes, it is being swamped by other electrical characteristics from nearby transformers with inductance and to a degree some capacitance internal
    in the transformer itself. A transformers internal wiring is for instance many thousands of times longer.

    For a fuse to be any different requires some declaration of a component or electrical characteristic that it claims as benefit to passing AC - I cannot see this occurring in a so called super duper fuse at all
    hence it is more likely a marketing exercise.
    Personally I agree, I think a super duper fuse is about to have a much impact on my system as I am breaking wind in a force 9 gale.
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  9. #29
    Join Date: Feb 2013

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    on face of it, that would seem likely, but people, who are often relatively skeptical have found that they do make a difference, so who knows....
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  10. #30
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I recently bought a bag of ferrite chokes and put them on everything. There's still loads of them left over. Unlike the fancy fuses they cost next to nothing so why not? I could not discern any difference in sound quality. I suppose it is possible that I did not have a problem to solve.
    Yes, that matches my experience with ferrite chokes. Bugger all difference.

    I do hear differences with fuses, though - some of the cheaper hifi ones just seem to make the sound brighter so whether you like it or not depends on where you want the tonal balance to be headed.

    Others (more expensive, sadly, like the SR ones) do seem to me to make an improvement all round - imaging, dynamics etc).
    I went through an enthusiastic fuse period, but I can't be bothered with it now.
    --- I think the break point for me came when I included a mains lead with an expensive SR fuse in with some gear I sold on ebay without realising it.
    Kind of put me off the whole thing.
    Jerry

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