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Thread: One for the Sussex Coast Members.

  1. #21
    Join Date: Jul 2009

    Location: Hampshire, UK

    Posts: 2,714
    I'm Buriedunderaloadofturntables.

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    The A90 linked to originally has nothing to do with the SPU series models or their construction.

    And is all the better for it, IMHO....
    Adam.

  2. #22
    Join Date: Feb 2010

    Location: Berkshire, UK

    Posts: 3,799
    I'm Tom.

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    I have had Petrat's SPU 95th Anniversary in my setup a couple of times now. It's a truly stunning cartridge and there's no doubt in my mind whatsoever that it's a proper SPU. As opposed to the Replicant 100 (essential a Fritz Geiger S) used in the SPU Royal and Royal N (with their gold coils) the SPU 95 uses an elliptical much like any Ortofon elliptical throughout the ages, except that instead of alloy or wood headshell it uses a titanium headshell which is uber-rigid - for that reason it extracts more detail than a standard SPU, without the stylus profile changing the original SPU character by very much.

    I have a vintage (60s) SPU GE (formerly coming back to me shortly after having had a new cantilever + FG elliptical tip (I'm assuming much the same as on the SPU 95) ... it will be used in a wooden headshell from the chap selling them in Germany - that should be entertaining. The old vintage SPUs certainly have a vintage charm, in part I'm sure from the Alnico magnets with the GT versions also benefiting from the internal SUTs which though limited in bandwidth and so on by their tiny size do nevertheless make a lovely match and benefit from the very short signal path.

    However ... I fundamentally disagree that anything made after the magnets changed is not a proper SPU or indeed is necessarily lacking in any way compared to the old ones. The modern ones have their own charms and do many things the vintage ones don't do. I'm speaking as owner/former owner of SPU Silver Meister, SPU Gold, SPU Spirit, SPU Royal N, SPU #1S and 1E and a number of vintage SPUs over the years including GTE, GE and G. (Plus several mono ones that don't fall into current discussion, and doubtless a couple I've forgotten about!).

    Ortofon are pretty serious about defending the SPU's heritage, and the various flavours of SPU reflect some pretty deep thinking about how to get the best from what is now a 60+ year old design which was itself an evolution of work done 80+ years ago. Long may that continue!

    Beobloke is of course correct when he says the A95 is not related to the SPU family. For me it looks hideous, has the wrong compliance and I'd happily take a proper SPU any day over it!
    Main: Speakers 'RFC' Tannoy Canterburys / custom crossovers with Tannoy ST50 supertweeters; Amp - Silvercore 833C monoblocks; Pre EAR 912; Vinyl: Thorens TD124 MkII + Ikeda IT345-CR1 9 inch and Ikeda IT-407 12 inch tonearms; Cartridges Stereo - Miyajima Madake, Miyajima Takumi, Ikeda 9TT, vintage Ortofon SPU GE; Mono - Miyajimas - Zero 0.7, Premium 1.0, Miyajima/Edison '78' 4.0 conical, and Shure M44 strapped for mono with several Expert Stylus conicals for different eras of 78s; Phono stage and SUT from EAR 912 + Miyajima ETR-Mono SUT; Esoteric Sound Re-Equalizer for equalisation of early mono and 78, switchable in from tape loop; Digital: Audio Note CDT2/II transport, heavily modded AN Kit DAC + Mutec MC3+USB.

    Study: Speakers - Tannoy DC6; Amp: Sony TA-F3000ES; Digital: CDP Sony CDP-X3000ES & Arcam rBlink; Vinyl: Technics SL10 with Pickering TL-3.

  3. #23
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 87,497
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by struth View Post
    although they are very sensitive they seem to benefit from a bit of current availability up em to keep them fluid.
    Sure, but it's a fallacy that valve amps, if properly designed, are in any way lacking in that department - certainly in the real world of reproducing music, outside of paper specs

    Honestly mate, a nice 10-15W single-ended valve amp would get those [98db efficient?] Teles signing, no worries, and would also be an ideal match for your tastes in music!

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

    BE HAPPY EVERYDAY!

  4. #24
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 87,497
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beobloke View Post
    The A90 linked to originally has nothing to do with the SPU series models or their construction.

    And is all the better for it, IMHO....
    Ha - as I told t'other A90 fanboy, each to his or her own. I believe, however, you're a fan of a DL-103, fitted onto an Empire turntable with matching arm [and rightly so], therefore consider how divorced that sound is, musically, from what's produced by an A90! And you'll get where I'm coming from.

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

    BE HAPPY EVERYDAY!

  5. #25
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 87,497
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by montesquieu View Post
    I have had Petrat's SPU 95th Anniversary in my setup a couple of times now. It's a truly stunning cartridge and there's no doubt in my mind whatsoever that it's a proper SPU. As opposed to the Replicant 100 (essential a Fritz Geiger S) used in the SPU Royal and Royal N (with their gold coils) the SPU 95 uses an elliptical much like any Ortofon elliptical throughout the ages, except that instead of alloy or wood headshell it uses a titanium headshell which is uber-rigid - for that reason it extracts more detail than a standard SPU, without the stylus profile changing the original SPU character by very much.

    I have a vintage (60s) SPU GE (formerly coming back to me shortly after having had a new cantilever + FG elliptical tip (I'm assuming much the same as on the SPU 95) ... it will be used in a wooden headshell from the chap selling them in Germany - that should be entertaining. The old vintage SPUs certainly have a vintage charm, in part I'm sure from the Alnico magnets with the GT versions also benefiting from the internal SUTs which though limited in bandwidth and so on by their tiny size do nevertheless make a lovely match and benefit from the very short signal path.

    However ... I fundamentally disagree that anything made after the magnets changed is not a proper SPU or indeed is necessarily lacking in any way compared to the old ones. The modern ones have their own charms and do many things the vintage ones don't do. I'm speaking as owner/former owner of SPU Silver Meister, SPU Gold, SPU Spirit, SPU Royal N, SPU #1S and 1E and a number of vintage SPUs over the years including GTE, GE and G. (Plus several mono ones that don't fall into current discussion, and doubtless a couple I've forgotten about!).

    Ortofon are pretty serious about defending the SPU's heritage, and the various flavours of SPU reflect some pretty deep thinking about how to get the best from what is now a 60+ year old design which was itself an evolution of work done 80+ years ago. Long may that continue!

    Beobloke is of course correct when he says the A95 is not related to the SPU family. For me it looks hideous, has the wrong compliance and I'd happily take a proper SPU any day over it!
    We're largely in agreement Tom, especially with your last sentence!

    I just prefer the, to keep it simple, although there's more to it than that, 'rich tone' of the best vintage SPUs, which crucially (for me) marries beautifully with the rather 'cool'/matter-of-fact nature of a Technics SL-1200/1210. Therefore, it's important to view my comments in that context [one of Yin/Yang], thus the creation of musical synergy.

    Would I use a vintage SPU on a warmer/less 'clinical' sounding turntable? No, not a chance, as you'd end up over-egging the pudding. It's coincidentally why I wouldn't use an A90, or indeed most modern Ortofons, on a Techy, as you'd over-egg the pudding the opposite way! However, some folks clearly enjoy that rather shiny, 'up front' type of sound, so at the end of the day it's all about what floats your boat

    Btw, good point about the SPU Royal. That's probably why I didn't get on with the GM MKII, when I had it, and why I subsequently fell in love with the minty 1958-vintage SPU G/T I sold it for, as it put 'meat' back on music's bones, which the Royal GM MKII had stripped away. I still think that the 'Alnico factor' though, is significant in delivering the type of sound I've mentioned.

    It's also why current production DL-103s don't sound the same as the earlier ones.

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

    BE HAPPY EVERYDAY!

  6. #26
    Join Date: Apr 2011

    Location: London

    Posts: 3,612
    I'm Robert.

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    Have had a good number of the upper end 'modern era' Ortofons and never found them 'shiny' in my set up, 2M Black, Quintet Black, Cadenza Black.

    The Cadenza particulary I've found very even and neutral, I guess supporting kit plays its part as well.

    One exception may have been the 2M Blue I had some years ago, but the supporting kit I had at the time was far less properly sorted than what I have now. (Fairly unmodded techie, equalizer, bass, treble and loudness always engaged back then
    you get the picture )

    I think this 'A90 fan boy' is known as an Ortofon fan boy accurately speaking, I've never heard an A90 but have really enjoyed the good number of Ortofons I've had.

    As such I believe I'd appreciate and get on with probably all the high end Ortofon's if set up properly and given time in my system - Windfelds, Expression, A90, A95, Anna, Century and I reckon I'd love some of those SPU's too.

    Thoroughly enjoyed reading this on the SPU - https://www.ortofon.com/hifi/cartridges-ranges/spu The history and insight, excellent and informative.
    My System:
    Amplification - Sansui AU-alpha 707 DR
    Turntable - Modified Technics SL1210 MK5G
    Mike New precision bearing, bearing base plate, ETP Platter
    Micro Seiki MA-202 tonearm, rewired, hybrid ceramic bearings
    Ortofon Cadenza Black moving coil cartridge - Fritz Gyger S re-tip
    Yannis Tome 423.5 Silver-Litz tonearm cable with KLEI Pure Silver Harmony plugs
    Ebony armboard
    Audio Technica MS-8 Magnesium headshell, Ortofon pure silver headshell leads
    Isonoe Isolation Feet
    Paul Hynes SR7EHD PSU (plus regulator modules), DCSXL pure-silver DC lead with Jaegar low impedance connector
    CDP - Pioneer PD-91
    Speakers - Spendor D7 on Soundcare SuperSpikes
    QED Silver Spiral speaker cable, Airlock plugs - bare wire amp end.
    Mains - Ultra Pure silver plated un-switched socket, Missing link EPS 500 silver plated plugs with Hi-Fi Tuning gold plated silver ceramic 13 amp fuses

  7. #27
    Join Date: Jul 2009

    Location: Hampshire, UK

    Posts: 2,714
    I'm Buriedunderaloadofturntables.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Ha - as I told t'other A90 fanboy, each to his or her own. I believe, however, you're a fan of a DL-103, fitted onto an Empire turntable with matching arm [and rightly so], therefore consider how divorced that sound is, musically, from what's produced by an A90! And you'll get where I'm coming from.

    Marco.
    Nope, I love the DL-103 in a Yamaha GT-2000. Id still take the A90 in a (shock, horror) SME V though!
    Adam.

  8. #28
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 20,372
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

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    I was mislead by Ortofon's confusing nomenclature of their models. The Anniversary A90 and A95 are different beasts to the SPU Anniversary 90, SPU Anniversary 95 and SPU Anniversary 100 (Century), according to Ortofon's website as cited by Robert.

    Excellent reply Tom BTW. You probably have had more experience of SPUs, both vintage and modern, than any other Member here.
    Barry

  9. #29
    Join Date: Apr 2011

    Location: London

    Posts: 3,612
    I'm Robert.

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    Tom, whilst likely still SPU in character overall, there are quite a number of them.

    How do the ones you've tried differ ?

    Do you have a personal fave and if so why
    My System:
    Amplification - Sansui AU-alpha 707 DR
    Turntable - Modified Technics SL1210 MK5G
    Mike New precision bearing, bearing base plate, ETP Platter
    Micro Seiki MA-202 tonearm, rewired, hybrid ceramic bearings
    Ortofon Cadenza Black moving coil cartridge - Fritz Gyger S re-tip
    Yannis Tome 423.5 Silver-Litz tonearm cable with KLEI Pure Silver Harmony plugs
    Ebony armboard
    Audio Technica MS-8 Magnesium headshell, Ortofon pure silver headshell leads
    Isonoe Isolation Feet
    Paul Hynes SR7EHD PSU (plus regulator modules), DCSXL pure-silver DC lead with Jaegar low impedance connector
    CDP - Pioneer PD-91
    Speakers - Spendor D7 on Soundcare SuperSpikes
    QED Silver Spiral speaker cable, Airlock plugs - bare wire amp end.
    Mains - Ultra Pure silver plated un-switched socket, Missing link EPS 500 silver plated plugs with Hi-Fi Tuning gold plated silver ceramic 13 amp fuses

  10. #30
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 87,497
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beobloke View Post
    Nope, I love the DL-103 in a Yamaha GT-2000. I’d still take the A90 in a (shock, horror) SME V though!
    Yes, but you also raved about a 103, some years ago in an issue of HFW, when fitted to the high-mass stock arm of an Empire T/T, or have you forgotten?

    Compare *that sound* you heard, particularly the bass end of things, with the intrinsic sonic presentation of an A90, and you should get what I like to hear from a cartridge, and indeed vinyl replay.

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

    BE HAPPY EVERYDAY!

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