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Thread: Digital Facts and realities?

  1. #201
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    I'm Martin.

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    More personal attacks. It's really all you have in the way of argument isn't it? Why would it make a difference that the paper is 20 years old? Has human hearing evolved in that short time? The fact that you would even use the age of the research as an argument demonstrates that you are clutching at straws. I won't be responding on this topic any more so feel free to have the last word.
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  2. #202
    Join Date: Oct 2008

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    I'm Gary.

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  3. #203
    Join Date: Oct 2008

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    Lighten up guys...
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    OPPO 203 (Modded: Linear PSU, i2s output to Dac) - Roon Endpoint, HDMI input used for all things Streaming/ PS5 /AppleTV ... also good for movies apparently?
    MUSIC PLAYBACK
    Tweaked AP-Linux based Roon Server into Oppo 203 as Roon endpoint
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  4. #204
    Join Date: Apr 2008

    Location: Cheshire, UK

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    I'm Clive.

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    To change tack and go back to basics...

    First let me state that with a good DAC I'm very happy with 16/44.1.

    I often see it stated that red book sampling rate is perfectly good for reproducing a sine wave. That's dandy but we don't listen to pure sine waves. The waves we listen to have incredibly varied amplitude. I can freehand link up something like 12 dots to make a decent fist of a sine wave. If I tried to do the same with a wave of varying amplitude how many dots do I need to accurately show the direction changes? A lot more for sure. I'm not saying that 16/44.1 can't do this, clearly it can or it gets very close. It's that statement about accurately reproducing a sine wave which seems like the wrong test.

    Can 16/44.1 accurately reproduce a real-world jagged curve in all cases?
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  5. #205
    Join Date: Oct 2012

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    I'm Alan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clive View Post
    Can 16/44.1 accurately reproduce a real-world jagged curve in all cases?
    Yes but only including frequencies below the nyquist limit of 22KHz.

  6. #206
    Join Date: Apr 2008

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    I'm Clive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebottle View Post
    Yes but only including frequencies below the nyquist limit of 22KHz.
    That's easily said but I'm looking for something deeper. An infinite number of samples would provide a perfect curve as there would be no curve extrapolations required. Clearly we don't have an infinite number of samples at any frequency so what are the limiting factors? I'm sure that in at least say 99.5% or 99.9% of the time the curve is accurate (or is that accurate enough, but who decides?). Are there dynamic situations where there can be a tiny error which may or may not be audible?
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  7. #207
    Join Date: Feb 2013

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    I'm Grant.

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    is it like measuring the coastline? the smaller the ruler the more accurate? ie the coastline becomes longer
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  8. #208
    Join Date: Feb 2008

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    I'm Neal.

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    Don’t forget the analogue signal is bandwidth limited to 20khz, assuming the input signal is not allowed to clip, 44.1Khz will sample everything correctly...the only contentious issue will be the quality/type of the input brick wall filter. If you believe that we can hear or sense information above 20khz then there’s is an argument that 44.1khz doesn’t cut it and we need sampling greater than that....in either case the input signal still needs to be bandwidth limited.
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  9. #209
    Join Date: Apr 2008

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    I'm Clive.

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    What I'm trying to get is how do we know that between the samples at say time points 4 and 5 there isn't a "squiggle" we're missing? We rely on Nyquist and Shannon theorems but there may be a point where they break down. Agreed it's probably not of practical importance but unless we know the point at which they break down we can't be sure.

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  10. #210
    Join Date: Feb 2008

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    I'm Neal.

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    Because the signal is bandwidth limited. It can break down if the signal is allowed to clip but that’s poor mastering, it shouldn’t be allowed to happen. The sampling is continuous not stepped or point in time so there are no gaps.
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