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Thread: Digital Facts and realities?

  1. #181
    Bigman80 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Light Dependant Resistor View Post
    Essential ( I think ) is to retrieve the CD player from the bin.

    Begin by asking yourself what is right or wrong with the audio your CD player provides, what make and model is it ?

    a easy path usually is to update the analogue stage opamps, but before that download a schematic and have a look at what style of opamp is needed
    which might be what is called DIP size or soic . I recently did the op amps in my Sony CDP555ES and replaced with burr Brown opa2107
    which for the Sony I could not ask for better audio performance.

    If your player has DIP size opamps already then it will be much easier to change, if soic yes it can be done but requires much care and skill as soic are very small indeed.
    I had a Sony CDP555ES. It wasn't something i think would compete with the Pi+Allo combination i have now. What i heard from it was pretty typical of every CD player i have heard. I imagine the BBOA made the tone better but can the opamp help with Jitter?

    One you get away from all of those moving mechanical parts in CD players, everything gets significantly better IMO.

    Macca made a point that digital is far better when you have sufficient quality amplification. I would totally agree with that. Analogue has sounded great on every amp i have had but digital has struggled to lay a scratch on the vinyl in comparison. Now I am running the Krell and removed as much of the mechanical aspect of digital replay, the sound easily compares with the vinyl and considering the vinyl front end is worth around £4K and the Raspberry Pi, Allo Dac and LPSU cost me under £200, its absolute sickening. I am seriously considering chucking my analogue set up on ebay while it still has value, but i'd never sell my vinyl so i may as well keep it. That's probably the only reason it's still here.

    I have never been concerned previously, that Vinyl would be killed off. CD has still got it's finger nails on the edge of the cliff in terms of sales but i will say this with utter confidence, As soon as someone makes the Pi + DAC a plug and play device with this level of quality, it WILL take over. The only thing holding it back is the lack of support when setting one up. Acronyms like NAS, J25 blah blah blah are not user friendly. How DO you set up a NAS? Do you pay? where do you get the files from? How do i connect a pi to Volumio? How do i create an image file? What is mounting a file? Do i plug the pi into the Router? What CAT cable should i use? Is wifi ok? .........AND MORE. That is the barrier to the Pi being in every living room in the country. Thats also why CD players and Vinyl still get played. They do all the work for you. Connect it up, switch it on drop the needle or put a disc in and you are good to go.

    This, in my opinion, is the only barrier to world domination for the new generation of streamers.

  2. #182
    Bigman80 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    Nice explanation.
    Hans is very good indeed. Jimbo highlighted him a while back but I have only been watching his stuff recently. Very knowledgeable and comes across as very unbiased.

  3. #183
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Martin, I said earlier that the discussion was becoming circular and boring, so that's why I've ignored the rest of your previous post, as responding would simply continue a currently (pointless) circular argument. However, I'll highlight this bit, as it's important, and something that you apparently don't seem to 'get':

    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I think it is good to have a debate on the subject and I don't take it personally although the attempts to discredit me rather than the independent evidence and information I have put forward are somewhat tiresome. As for those telling me I have no experience because I have not paid some bloke to put some different parts into a cd player - that's quite funny.
    Funny or not, the fact is you have no direct personal experience of assessing the effect of a clock upgrade, in any of your digital equipment, in the context of your system, and no amount of research/paper reading on the subject can make up for that.

    Therefore, your stance on this matter is akin to that of a cable cynic, who's only ever used freebie interconnects, telling everyone that anything better doesn't make a difference because 'science says so', which simply doesn't add any value to the discussion.

    Like most folk here, I'm only really interested in the opinions people form, based on their practical listening experience, not what they've learned from reading technical papers, as anyone can do that, and thus turn the discussion of audio into a form of scientific study.

    *That* [last bit] is fundamentally NOT what AoS is about, and indeed flies completely in the face of our ethos!

    AoS is primarily about members sharing their personal experiences of using hi-fi stuff, whatever it may be, and relating their *subjective* findings to others, in the hope that it will be of some benefit, so that they can *learn from each other*, not from books or technical studies, and subsequently use what is learned that way to improve their systems and enjoyment of music.

    That is why this forum exists and has a predominantly subjectivist, 'ears first' ethos, and in turn is why the results of people's listening experiences will ultimately always be what matters most.

    In that respect, as far as you're concerned, I care about what YOU think, based on what YOU have heard, and the conclusions YOU have reached on that basis, not what you've read about, and more importantly, I trust *your* ears, not the ears/hearing acuity of those whose input has been used to compile a CES paper.

    In that respect, I guarantee that if you were to try a clock upgrade for yourself, and report your experiences here, whether positive or negative, people would sit up and take notice, as they'd be much more interested in your findings there, than you spouting technicalities, which neither you nor most here fully understand.

    So why not give it a go?

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  4. #184
    Join Date: Mar 2019

    Location: New Jersey, USA

    Posts: 230
    I'm Leo.

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    Fact is:
    In the digital domain 1-bit equates to 6dB of SNR so:
    16-bit = 96dB
    24-bit = 144dB
    32-bit = 192dB

    In the analog domain however even 24-bits cannot be realized, there are no DACs that have a SNR of 144dB.

    Hence 32 bits will not yield any better results than 24, because of limitations in analog electronics.

  5. #185
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 99,005
    I'm Grant.

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    although i often upscale to 24/96 and occasionally higher, I have to say Im not at all sure there are any benefits. DSD is another matter, and im still exploring this. Tidal masters is again another thing, and not as obvious as it says. Sometimes its beneficial sometimes its worse..
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    FIIO K7 BT, M11 PLUS, BTR7, KA5 - OPPO BDP-103D - PANASONIC UB450 - PANASONIC 4K ULTRA HD TV - PIXEL 6 - AVANTREE LR BLUETOOTH - 2* X600 SOUNDCORE - HEADPHONES INCLUDE, FIIO, NURAPHONES', FOCAL, OPPO, BOSE, CAMBRIDGE, BOWER & WILKINS, DEVIALET, MARSHALL, SONY, MITCHELL & JOHNSTON - 2*ZBOOK'S- MERCURY BD ROM, ROON, QOBUZ, TIDAL, PLEX, CYBERLINK, JRIVER - MULTI HDD'S -

    Oh my god! There's nothing wrong with the bidet is there?

    “Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test. It is the glory of Lincoln that, having almost absolute power, he never abused it, except on the side of mercy".

    “You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”

    "You don't have free will. You have the appearance of free will.”

    “There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!”


    ***SMILE, BE HAPPY***

  6. #186
    Bigman80 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by struth View Post
    although i often upscale to 24/96 and occasionally higher, I have to say Im not at all sure there are any benefits. DSD is another matter, and im still exploring this. Tidal masters is again another thing, and not as obvious as it says. Sometimes its beneficial sometimes its worse..
    I spent some time with Tidal, I hated it.

  7. #187
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 99,005
    I'm Grant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigman80 View Post
    I spent some time with Tidal, I hated it.
    I dont find it s basic 16 bit stuff any different really to qoboz tbh.(mostly) Still using both, but will have to make a choice sometime soon lol or i will end up paying 2 subs
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    FIIO K7 BT, M11 PLUS, BTR7, KA5 - OPPO BDP-103D - PANASONIC UB450 - PANASONIC 4K ULTRA HD TV - PIXEL 6 - AVANTREE LR BLUETOOTH - 2* X600 SOUNDCORE - HEADPHONES INCLUDE, FIIO, NURAPHONES', FOCAL, OPPO, BOSE, CAMBRIDGE, BOWER & WILKINS, DEVIALET, MARSHALL, SONY, MITCHELL & JOHNSTON - 2*ZBOOK'S- MERCURY BD ROM, ROON, QOBUZ, TIDAL, PLEX, CYBERLINK, JRIVER - MULTI HDD'S -

    Oh my god! There's nothing wrong with the bidet is there?

    “Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test. It is the glory of Lincoln that, having almost absolute power, he never abused it, except on the side of mercy".

    “You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”

    "You don't have free will. You have the appearance of free will.”

    “There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!”


    ***SMILE, BE HAPPY***

  8. #188
    Bigman80 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by struth View Post
    I dont find it s basic 16 bit stuff any different really to qoboz tbh.(mostly) Still using both, but will have to make a choice sometime soon lol or i will end up paying 2 subs
    I can't accept having to keep a sub going to have access to music. I've set up a NAS at home and am ripping CDs or downloading FLAC files. I've filled a 500gb hard drive and I'm now starting to look for a 1TB one. I'll eventually set up a proper NAS with built in storage.

  9. #189
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 99,005
    I'm Grant.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigman80 View Post
    I can't accept having to keep a sub going to have access to music. I've set up a NAS at home and am ripping CDs or downloading FLAC files. I've filled a 500gb hard drive and I'm now starting to look for a 1TB one. I'll eventually set up a proper NAS with built in storage.
    its a point of view certainly. I have had one for a few years. Tried most. Ive got about 800 albums stored of my own but it is a great way to find new stuff.
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    FIIO K7 BT, M11 PLUS, BTR7, KA5 - OPPO BDP-103D - PANASONIC UB450 - PANASONIC 4K ULTRA HD TV - PIXEL 6 - AVANTREE LR BLUETOOTH - 2* X600 SOUNDCORE - HEADPHONES INCLUDE, FIIO, NURAPHONES', FOCAL, OPPO, BOSE, CAMBRIDGE, BOWER & WILKINS, DEVIALET, MARSHALL, SONY, MITCHELL & JOHNSTON - 2*ZBOOK'S- MERCURY BD ROM, ROON, QOBUZ, TIDAL, PLEX, CYBERLINK, JRIVER - MULTI HDD'S -

    Oh my god! There's nothing wrong with the bidet is there?

    “Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test. It is the glory of Lincoln that, having almost absolute power, he never abused it, except on the side of mercy".

    “You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”

    "You don't have free will. You have the appearance of free will.”

    “There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!”


    ***SMILE, BE HAPPY***

  10. #190
    Bigman80 Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by struth View Post
    its a point of view certainly. I have had one for a few years. Tried most. Ive got about 800 albums stored of my own but it is a great way to find new stuff.
    I see the appeal mate, but it's not for me. I usually have a browse through YouTube and see what's new. Then I'll either Rio their cd or download.

    I like to know I have a copy. If Tidal goes down, you've got no music!!!!

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