+ Reply to Thread
Page 27 of 28 FirstFirst ... 1725262728 LastLast
Results 261 to 270 of 271

Thread: Digital Facts and realities?

  1. #261
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 19,837
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

    Default

    And of course it presupposes you listen with your head held in a clamp, so it can't move.
    Have you listened to this month's choice in the Album Club?

    Barry

  2. #262
    Join Date: Sep 2013

    Location: North Island New Zealand

    Posts: 1,203
    I'm Chris.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    And of course it presupposes you listen with your head held in a clamp, so it can't move.
    I think a head clamp might add a unnecessary boundary reflection, possibly obscuring or confusing the anticipated 2mm difference.
    Maybe try each, to see.

  3. #263
    Join Date: Apr 2015

    Location: Central Virginia

    Posts: 1,497
    I'm Russell.

    Default

    Even if you multiply by ten, it’s still a very small amount. If one can hear a speaker moved 20mm that’s still significant.

    Russell

  4. #264
    Join Date: Aug 2008

    Location: Suffolk, UK

    Posts: 1,417
    I'm Paul.

    Default

    Two interesting articles on Sound on Sound:

    https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/digital-myth

    https://www.soundonsound.com/techniq...-audio-quality

    Generally information on the SOS website can be considered reliable, although some might argue that the second is some disguised marketing.

    One thing that I did find of particular interest was the idea that although our brains can process timing information very well to the point where we may not be able to perceive these “timing errors” if our brains are required to work less in this regard then quite possibly extended or critical listening may well be more satisfying.
    ~Paul~

  5. #265
    Join Date: Apr 2008

    Location: Cheshire, UK

    Posts: 2,730
    I'm Clive.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alphaGT View Post
    Even if you multiply by ten, it’s still a very small amount. If one can hear a speaker moved 20mm that’s still significant.

    Russell
    I find it depends on the speakers. My OBs much more sensitive to fore and aft placement than box speakers, presumably due to the sound emitting in both directions so there's a more complex relationship between direct and reflected sound. I do indeed fine tune the speakers to a very small number of cms, could well be around 2 cms, but not 2mm!

    More generally yes 2mm is going too far in reality. On the one side we have sampling at 22.7uS being thought of as easily good enough. On the other side we have suggestions that 5 to 10uS may only just be enough to allow us to be relaxed and sense the best timing.

    Has either suggestion been fully put to scientific trials? And no I don't mean DBT because if we are talking about relaxed listening and sensing timing I don't believe that typical DBT tests are any use whatsoever. We'd need a clever scientist to come us with a good test or do we end up needing to rely on a large number of subjective tests - long term listening in a controlled environment?
    TT 1 Trans-Fi Salvation with magnetic bearing + Trans-Fi Terminator T3Pro + London Reference
    TT 2 Garrard 301 with NWA main bearing + OL Encounter mkIII + Ortofon 2M Mono SE
    Digital Fanless i5 Skylake ASUS H110T Windows file server with HDPLEX LPS / JPLAY Femto / Chord Qutest / Allo USBridge into Ciunas Audio ISO-DAC & Pi/DigiOne into Metrum Musette
    Preamp Hagerman Cornet 2 phono stage, John Chapman's Slagleformer-based AVC-1 into Transcendent Sound Sub Buddy
    Power Amp Temple Audio Monoblocks with Supercap LPS / 300B WE91 SE Monoblocks / Firebottle EL84 PSE
    Bass Amp & DSP Behringer iNuke NU3000DSP x 2
    Speakers 1 Bastanis Sagarmatha Duo with twin baffleless 15" bass drivers per side
    Speakers 2 MarkaudioSota Viotti One

  6. #266
    Join Date: Apr 2008

    Location: Cheshire, UK

    Posts: 2,730
    I'm Clive.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Primalsea View Post
    Two interesting articles on Sound on Sound:

    https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/digital-myth

    https://www.soundonsound.com/techniq...-audio-quality

    Generally information on the SOS website can be considered reliable, although some might argue that the second is some disguised marketing.

    One thing that I did find of particular interest was the idea that although our brains can process timing information very well to the point where we may not be able to perceive these “timing errors” if our brains are required to work less in this regard then quite possibly extended or critical listening may well be more satisfying.
    Interesting point. What we know about dyslexics gives us some clues. Many dyslexics suffer overload in terms of information processing of the auditory. The brain cannot process sounds fast enough so words may not be fully broken down eg marmite could be heard as mumit, often it's the middle of the work that's an issue but it does vary. Bear mind that about 10% of us exhibit some dyslexia. Maybe dyslexics need a higher sampling rate to allow them to register timing well - but maybe that's presents more information making things worse....so many questions!
    TT 1 Trans-Fi Salvation with magnetic bearing + Trans-Fi Terminator T3Pro + London Reference
    TT 2 Garrard 301 with NWA main bearing + OL Encounter mkIII + Ortofon 2M Mono SE
    Digital Fanless i5 Skylake ASUS H110T Windows file server with HDPLEX LPS / JPLAY Femto / Chord Qutest / Allo USBridge into Ciunas Audio ISO-DAC & Pi/DigiOne into Metrum Musette
    Preamp Hagerman Cornet 2 phono stage, John Chapman's Slagleformer-based AVC-1 into Transcendent Sound Sub Buddy
    Power Amp Temple Audio Monoblocks with Supercap LPS / 300B WE91 SE Monoblocks / Firebottle EL84 PSE
    Bass Amp & DSP Behringer iNuke NU3000DSP x 2
    Speakers 1 Bastanis Sagarmatha Duo with twin baffleless 15" bass drivers per side
    Speakers 2 MarkaudioSota Viotti One

  7. #267
    Join Date: Aug 2008

    Location: Suffolk, UK

    Posts: 1,417
    I'm Paul.

    Default

    If only audio engineers and psychologists got together!
    ~Paul~

  8. #268
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 54,241
    I'm Grant.

    Default

    The blind usually have sharper hearing so may be the best subjects.
    Up and down a few mm will make a difference. Doubt if it would back to front distance tho
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    OPPO BDP-103D DARBEE - JBE SERIES 3/B&O SP1/PROJECT PHONOBOX DS2 USB - QUAD VENA 2 - IFI PURIFIER 2/TWIN PRO MONOBLOCK POWER AMPLIFIERS - XS VALVE DAC - AVANTREE OASIS PLUS + LEAF HD BLUETOOTHS - OPPO PM-3 PLANAR, SONY H900 +NURAPHONE HEADPHONES - ZBOOK/WIN10 PRO/AUDIRVANA 3 PLUS/TIDAL - SMSL M6 MINIDAC +IFI SILENCER - RPI 3 DIGIONE/VOLUMIO - FULL RANGE TWIN TELEFUNKEN MAIN SPKRS/Q ACOUSTIC BT3 ACTIVES & CANTON SUB - P.INSPIRED MAINS REGENERATED.

    **Men are not punished for their sins, but by them**

  9. #269
    Join Date: Apr 2008

    Location: Cheshire, UK

    Posts: 2,730
    I'm Clive.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by struth View Post
    The blind usually have sharper hearing so may be the best subjects.
    Up and down a few mm will make a difference. Doubt if it would back to front distance tho
    I feel we need a spectrum of people. What's best for one is unlikely to be best for another. I'm sure we've all experienced people having very different musical presentations preferences to own preference. It's a bit like dieting, not all metabolisms are the same. People with excellent hearing and the best phonological processing - ability to distinguish the sounds efficiently - will I suspect have differing requirements to the dyslexics I've described. Maybe there isn't a gold standard perfect system, just one that suits specific individuals and we could do with understanding what characteristics suit certain type of people.
    TT 1 Trans-Fi Salvation with magnetic bearing + Trans-Fi Terminator T3Pro + London Reference
    TT 2 Garrard 301 with NWA main bearing + OL Encounter mkIII + Ortofon 2M Mono SE
    Digital Fanless i5 Skylake ASUS H110T Windows file server with HDPLEX LPS / JPLAY Femto / Chord Qutest / Allo USBridge into Ciunas Audio ISO-DAC & Pi/DigiOne into Metrum Musette
    Preamp Hagerman Cornet 2 phono stage, John Chapman's Slagleformer-based AVC-1 into Transcendent Sound Sub Buddy
    Power Amp Temple Audio Monoblocks with Supercap LPS / 300B WE91 SE Monoblocks / Firebottle EL84 PSE
    Bass Amp & DSP Behringer iNuke NU3000DSP x 2
    Speakers 1 Bastanis Sagarmatha Duo with twin baffleless 15" bass drivers per side
    Speakers 2 MarkaudioSota Viotti One

  10. #270
    Join Date: Apr 2015

    Location: Central Virginia

    Posts: 1,497
    I'm Russell.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Clive View Post
    I feel we need a spectrum of people. What's best for one is unlikely to be best for another. I'm sure we've all experienced people having very different musical presentations preferences to own preference. It's a bit like dieting, not all metabolisms are the same. People with excellent hearing and the best phonological processing - ability to distinguish the sounds efficiently - will I suspect have differing requirements to the dyslexics I've described. Maybe there isn't a gold standard perfect system, just one that suits specific individuals and we could do with understanding what characteristics suit certain type of people.
    Interesting point. I feel that most double blind tests are of no use, because the test group is of an average audience. The test subjects range from the super golden ears, to the next to deaf, and all in between. Why would we want to test high end stereo using near deaf testers? Hearing tests should be performed on all those considered for the test, and only those of the highest results used in the test. Otherwise, we are always going to come to the same conclusion. That results are no better than chance.

    . We aren’t testing to see if the average person can hear it, we are testing to tell if there is a difference! I see it time and again that these lax tests are said to prove that there is no audible difference, and perhaps marketers of mass production equipment are only interested in what the average person hears? But those who design high end gear are not concerned about what average people hear, they are concerned with what the few who are willing to pay top dollar for sound quality can hear.

    Russell

+ Reply to Thread
Page 27 of 28 FirstFirst ... 1725262728 LastLast



 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •