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Thread: Digital Facts and realities?

  1. #1
    Join Date: Nov 2015

    Location: Wolverhampton

    Posts: 8,706
    I'm Oliver.

    Default Digital Facts and realities?

    I was given this information via a read me file, just thought I'd share it:

    Digital Facts and realities:

    Most music is in the 50 Hz to 15 KHz range. The Human ear does not hear from the 20 Hz to the 20 KHz range. Almost all speakers, ear buds and headphones will not produce anything outside the 20 Hz to 20 KHz range. The best tape machines will not play anything above the 60 KHz range. So unless something is recorded digitally today 60 KHz is the maximum that can be played back from a Master tape.

    The sampling rate must be double the highest frequency rate. Since all of the above holds true with respect to equipment the industry settled on the 44100 for Redbook Cd’s. They will reproduce a 1Hz to 22.5 KHz range. Beyond most equipment’s capability and the human ears capability.

    The way a digital to analog converter (DAC) works it creates a smooth sine wave no matter what the sampling rate is. Therefor certainly anything above the 48 KHz range is a complete waste of space. The extra room above 40 KHz is used to dither noise. Hence the 44.1 and 48 KHz used on CD and Video. So much for the SACD in the sampling rate respect. A waste of space.

    The Bit rate comparison of 16 bit to 24 bit might be the only saving grace for the SACD. However it has its questionable aspects on a technical level as well. The main function of the bit rate is signal to noise ratio. Keep in mind that we go deaf at the 140 decibel level. 16 bit is capable of 100 DB and 24 bit is capable of 150+ DB. Again most equipment is not capable of over 127 DB level. A well Mastered 16 bit is actually capable of the 120 DB level and is called 20 Bit. Some of the 24 bit is actually 22 bit and the last 2 bits are zeroed out. So the difference between a 16 bit and 24 bit is just about a moot point.

    Mastering is the most important aspect when it comes to sound quality. A well mastered CD is absolutely better than a poorly mastered SACD. And vice a versa. First and foremost in deciding what is the best sounding choice should always be the mastering. Keeping in mind that larger is not better. With all of the above being true in most cases it is certainly a waste. Another consideration is age of the Master tapes with a lot of music. A good master done 20 years ago is potentially superior to a re-master today due to tape degradation.

    Sony is a company with one goal in mind. To make money by keeping sales high. They invented the SACD. With that in mind and all of the above facts as well as numerous testing that has been done showing that 99% cannot hear a difference at all in the SACD compared to a CD the conclusion must be that it is about sales. As far as Sony is concerned. Also if you own an SACD and do not have an SACD player you are actually getting the CD layer when listening to the actual SACD.

    I would think that the perfect media would be 48000-24. Not much larger than a CD and capturing any benefit a 24 bit might have. Which of course is questionable. Certainly not noticeable until you crank it up over the 100 DB range which almost none ever do. Again bigger is not better. The first link is from the makers of FLAC…

    https://xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

    http://www.head-fi.org/t/356139/sacd...simply-placebo

    http://users.ece.utexas.edu/~bevans/...ital_Audio.pdf
    Last edited by Bigman80; 12-03-2019 at 22:59.
    Analogue: Technics SP10 MK2 > Phonomac AT-1010 MK6 tonearm > Ortofon Kontrapunkt b > Bigbottle Jfet MC Valve Phonostage (Telefunken Valves)
    Digital: Raspberry Pi 3+/Allo Boss 1.2/Isolator 1.3 & 2x LPSU's with Volumio & JRiver
    Amplification: Nelson Pass DCB1 with Khozmo 48 Step Series Attenuator & Krell KSA100 MK2 Amplifier
    Cables: SPOTFIRE Speaker Cable & SPOTFIRE IC Cables & SPOTFIRE Tonearm cable
    Speakers: Pioneer CS-77A
    Price List For SPOTFIRE Cables here:https://bit.ly/2Uxiv3j

  2. #2
    Join Date: Mar 2009

    Location: South West-ish, UK

    Posts: 239
    I'm Patrick.

    Default

    Which bits are the facts?

  3. #3
    Join Date: Apr 2017

    Location: Cheshire UK

    Posts: 738
    I'm Martin.

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    Well I cant hear much above 12khz and my ears are still ringing from my last trip to rockworld so I dont worry too much

    Even those that do say there is a difference say it can be subtle and not worth the investment for most people. Im quite happy with the cd standard rate. Most people havent tried or cant hear the difference. There are still debates that the redbook cd version sounds better.

    I havent moved towards higher resolution because I have not been bothered to do it. I was waiting for Neil Young to bring the price down to mass market levels

    I can pick up cds cheaply...Im enjoying the music and it all seems better for me than shelling out for sacd or high res files.

    I dont know how much more information I need and its not been marketed to me properly. I feel that this is mainly because they know im not getting much aural difference for my money
    Last edited by Minstrel SE; 13-03-2019 at 18:19.

  4. #4
    Join Date: May 2017

    Location: West Sussex, UK

    Posts: 671
    I'm Steve.

    Default

    Hi Oliver

    I would disagree with your comments.
    I know if you disconnected the super tweeters in your pioneers YOU would notice
    Which would suggest your observations are flawed.

    Steve
    Project 2experience sb dc, Cart: At33ptg
    Puresound P10 / T10 Phono Stage
    Firebottle Mono Blocks
    Nelson Pass Dcb1 turbo @ 1.2A. Khozmo 50k series attenuator.
    CD Player: Cyrus cd8se
    Spendor S6e
    Spotfire rca throughout - Spotfire Speaker Cable

    Steve...

  5. #5
    Join Date: Nov 2015

    Location: Wolverhampton

    Posts: 8,706
    I'm Oliver.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by STD305M View Post
    Hi Oliver

    I would disagree with your comments.
    I know if you disconnected the super tweeters in your pioneers YOU would notice
    Which would suggest your observations are flawed.

    Steve
    Ah, not my comments mate. This was in a "Read me" file on some music files I was given. Just shared it here to see what people thought.

    And yes, I notice as soon as I turn the Super tweeters off
    Analogue: Technics SP10 MK2 > Phonomac AT-1010 MK6 tonearm > Ortofon Kontrapunkt b > Bigbottle Jfet MC Valve Phonostage (Telefunken Valves)
    Digital: Raspberry Pi 3+/Allo Boss 1.2/Isolator 1.3 & 2x LPSU's with Volumio & JRiver
    Amplification: Nelson Pass DCB1 with Khozmo 48 Step Series Attenuator & Krell KSA100 MK2 Amplifier
    Cables: SPOTFIRE Speaker Cable & SPOTFIRE IC Cables & SPOTFIRE Tonearm cable
    Speakers: Pioneer CS-77A
    Price List For SPOTFIRE Cables here:https://bit.ly/2Uxiv3j

  6. #6
    Join Date: Nov 2015

    Location: Wolverhampton

    Posts: 8,706
    I'm Oliver.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Dixon View Post
    Which bits are the facts?
    No idea, that's why I shared it!

    Like I said, it's from a "read me" file I was given.
    Analogue: Technics SP10 MK2 > Phonomac AT-1010 MK6 tonearm > Ortofon Kontrapunkt b > Bigbottle Jfet MC Valve Phonostage (Telefunken Valves)
    Digital: Raspberry Pi 3+/Allo Boss 1.2/Isolator 1.3 & 2x LPSU's with Volumio & JRiver
    Amplification: Nelson Pass DCB1 with Khozmo 48 Step Series Attenuator & Krell KSA100 MK2 Amplifier
    Cables: SPOTFIRE Speaker Cable & SPOTFIRE IC Cables & SPOTFIRE Tonearm cable
    Speakers: Pioneer CS-77A
    Price List For SPOTFIRE Cables here:https://bit.ly/2Uxiv3j

  7. #7
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 20,095
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

    Default

    Well the second sentence is obviously wrong!
    Barry

  8. #8
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: Down South

    Posts: 2,348
    I'm Neal.

    Default

    I’m with Patrick, which parts are meant to be “facts”? I can’t seperate the subjective BS from thesupposedly technical parts...
    Listening in a Foo free Zone...

    Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

  9. #9
    Join Date: Nov 2015

    Location: Wolverhampton

    Posts: 8,706
    I'm Oliver.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NRG View Post
    I’m with Patrick, which parts are meant to be “facts”? I can’t seperate the subjective BS from thesupposedly technical parts...
    No idea!

    I've largely ignored digital music but the Raspberry Pi/Allo Boss DAC has opened my eyes to the vast library that can be created, very quickly and enjoyed at the touch of a screen.*

    I just felt this was an interesting read and wondered how much was actually fact Vs fiction.*

    That's why it here, to get the opinion of those who might know!
    Analogue: Technics SP10 MK2 > Phonomac AT-1010 MK6 tonearm > Ortofon Kontrapunkt b > Bigbottle Jfet MC Valve Phonostage (Telefunken Valves)
    Digital: Raspberry Pi 3+/Allo Boss 1.2/Isolator 1.3 & 2x LPSU's with Volumio & JRiver
    Amplification: Nelson Pass DCB1 with Khozmo 48 Step Series Attenuator & Krell KSA100 MK2 Amplifier
    Cables: SPOTFIRE Speaker Cable & SPOTFIRE IC Cables & SPOTFIRE Tonearm cable
    Speakers: Pioneer CS-77A
    Price List For SPOTFIRE Cables here:https://bit.ly/2Uxiv3j

  10. #10
    Join Date: Nov 2015

    Location: Wolverhampton

    Posts: 8,706
    I'm Oliver.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Well the second sentence is obviously wrong!
    Probably but that was the title of the file.
    Analogue: Technics SP10 MK2 > Phonomac AT-1010 MK6 tonearm > Ortofon Kontrapunkt b > Bigbottle Jfet MC Valve Phonostage (Telefunken Valves)
    Digital: Raspberry Pi 3+/Allo Boss 1.2/Isolator 1.3 & 2x LPSU's with Volumio & JRiver
    Amplification: Nelson Pass DCB1 with Khozmo 48 Step Series Attenuator & Krell KSA100 MK2 Amplifier
    Cables: SPOTFIRE Speaker Cable & SPOTFIRE IC Cables & SPOTFIRE Tonearm cable
    Speakers: Pioneer CS-77A
    Price List For SPOTFIRE Cables here:https://bit.ly/2Uxiv3j

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