Digital Facts and realities?

[Jimbo]

I was refering to Martins Post concerning Jitter.

"Jitter was a solved problem before CD even came out. I've got vintage players here that will demonstrate that on a practical level. (Marantz CD54 from 1984, Technics SLP1200 from 1989).

The SQ issues people experience with CD have nothing to do with jitter."

As you said in a previous post you don't often know you have "glare" in digital audio until it is gone and there are many ways of reducing jitter or poor clock timing. Every aspect of the digital chain from start to finished needs to be optimised in order to get a really good result including PSUs, cables,software, hardware, system set up etc etc....

[Marco]

Yes I fully agree - and experience bears it out

Btw, in future it's always best to quote *exactly* what you're referring to, as otherwise it can be unclear. In this instance, your post in question appeared directly under mine, so I thought you were refuting what I had written.

Marco.

[Jimbo]

Yes I fully agree - and experience bears it out

Btw, in future it's always best to quote *exactly* what you're referring to, as otherwise it can be unclear. In this instance, your post in question appeared directly under mine, so I thought you were refuting what I had written.

Marco.

Sorry, will do.

[Gazjam]

Someone who knows digital discussing Jitter.

[NRG]

Seen those videos before, still love the ‘foot tapping.....touchy-feely crap’ comment. His description of how jitter may be perceived mirrors my own experience of improving the master clock in DACs and players. Most recently with the Kali reclocker on the RPi where it’s not just the improvement in detail retrevial but also in the foot tapping enjoyment stakes.

[Gazjam]

Yup.
all about....


timing.

[Macca]

I would certainly take his advice than yours Martin. With respect I don't think you are technically knowledgeable enough concerning digital audio to be a useful guide as to what is right or wrong in digital audio.

You may have opinions but I feel that is all they are.

The technical part is done by other people. I simply relate their findings. And then there is also my own subjective experience, which tends to correlate with what the research says, at least broadly speaking. Subjectively I found that as I improved my amplification the problems I had with digital, and which many believe to be inherent to digital, went away. Even with budget players and players from the mid/late 1980s that were supposedly full of jitter, could strip paint, etc etc.


I do agree that it makes sense to optimise every facet of the digital playback system, it's unlikely to hurt and may have a cumulative effect. But IME it makes a lot more sense to optimise the amplification first.

[Gazjam]

Jitter DOES matter though Martin, technically which can be heard subjectively.

BUT...
Not everyone is bothered by it of course, or can hear it as the first video above says.
If it’s not hurtin’ in a particular system or set of ears, I’d forget it and just enjoy the music.

No point looking for problems, and as you say maybe in a particular system more benefit could be found upgrading elsewhere.

[Macca]

Jitter DOES matter though Martin, technically which can be heard subjectively.
.
.

It matters if there is enough of it to be audible I agree. The question should be does any DAC or CD player have enough of it to be audible? If you look on ASR site they have tested about 60 DACs and even the worst performing ones do not have jitter any where near audible levels.


Take a look at the research I linked to earlier where they tested the audibility of jitter. It's funny that even though I link to this stuff people think I am making it up myself. There's a whole world of research on this stuff out there, it's not some big mystery. These questions were asked and properly answered some time ago. Oh well.

[Marco]

Take a look at the research I linked to earlier where they tested the audibility of jitter. It's funny that even though I link to this stuff people think I am making it up myself. There's a whole world of research on this stuff out there, it's not some big mystery. These questions were asked and properly answered some time ago. Oh well.

Yes, but if you've carried out your own experiments and research into the matter, and what you've heard/discovered in that respect flies in the face of the technical research you've linked to, why should we change our (well deserved) contrary opinion?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe you've carried out any clock upgrades to DACs you've owned, which addresses the issue of jitter, and thus have heard the 'before and after' effect? If you had done, your views on the subject might be different.

As I've said many times before, *ultimately* (that means once MY judgement criteria has been satisfied), I'll always trust my own ears, over ANY amount of technical research conducted by others, and this area of audio is but another valid example of such. I never form conclusive opinions on any subject, audio or otherwise, simply as a result of having read something somewhere.

Just because a so-called expert has supposedly created a 'fact', in reference to digital audio, doesn't automatically make it so... Therefore, always be prepared to apply some lateral thinking and have faith in your OWN judgement, regardless of what any 'experts' say.

Personal, practical experience is always what counts most!

Marco.