+ Reply to Thread
Page 20 of 28 FirstFirst ... 101819202122 ... LastLast
Results 191 to 200 of 271

Thread: Digital Facts and realities?

  1. #191
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigman80 View Post
    I spent some time with Tidal, I hated it.
    Lol - I love it! What did you hate about it?

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  2. #192
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigman80 View Post
    I can't accept having to keep a sub going to have access to music. I've set up a NAS at home and am ripping CDs or downloading FLAC files. I've filled a 500gb hard drive and I'm now starting to look for a 1TB one. I'll eventually set up a proper NAS with built in storage.
    Ah, so does that answer my previous question? If so, then fair enough.

    However, I've got 6TB worth of music, spread over three HDs, not to mention about 2500 CDs, and I still find having access to an 'online jukebox' handy!

    I don't use it for 'serious' listening, as for me NO online streamed music is of sufficient quality to replace that available from local streaming of such at home, or with CDs, but in terms of discovering new music or checking out something first before buying or downloading it, Tidal (and other services like it) is invaluable

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  3. #193
    Bigman80 Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Lol - I love it! What did you hate about it?

    Marco.
    I had to use bubbleupnp which was horrible so didn't help but what bugged me was usually there was 3/4 versions of one album. I then spent 20 minutes trying to pick the one that sounded best. When I turned it all off and come back to it later, I then couldn't find the same bloody version again.

    It's almost too much choice.

    My HDD has the best versions (subjective best) of the album's I want so there's no messing about.

    I was spending an age looking for music to listen too by artists I knew and I didn't sound any better than using my home NAS setup which is a laptop and HDD.

    I just didn't see the point in paying £20 a month for all that aggro

  4. #194
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Fair enough, mate. See my previous post. I use Tidal (and other such services) in a very different way

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  5. #195
    Join Date: Sep 2013

    Location: North Island New Zealand

    Posts: 1,757
    I'm Chris.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by orchardaudio View Post
    Fact is:
    In the digital domain 1-bit equates to 6dB of SNR so:
    16-bit = 96dB
    24-bit = 144dB
    32-bit = 192dB

    In the analog domain however even 24-bits cannot be realized, there are no DACs that have a SNR of 144dB.

    Hence 32 bits will not yield any better results than 24, because of limitations in analog electronics.
    I find it beneficial to never create boundaries or say no, as its just a matter of applying the right principles to find a solution.
    As example 24 bit recording and playback was possible in November of 1998 and remains possible with digital - you will
    though need a type 4 DBX compander to assist.

    Another example think beyond the ubiquitous bridge rectifier and deploy mosfets thyristors and current regulation within the bridge
    there are endless possibilities when you do not include, the word limitations and no.

  6. #196
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,774
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Martin, I said earlier that the discussion was becoming circular and boring, so that's why I've ignored the rest of your previous post, as responding would simply continue a currently (pointless) circular argument. However, I'll highlight this bit, as it's important, and something that you apparently don't seem to 'get':



    Funny or not, the fact is you have no direct personal experience of assessing the effect of a clock upgrade, in any of your digital equipment, in the context of your system, and no amount of research/paper reading on the subject can make up for that.

    Therefore, your stance on this matter is akin to that of a cable cynic, who's only ever used freebie interconnects, telling everyone that anything better doesn't make a difference because 'science says so', which simply doesn't add any value to the discussion.

    Like most folk here, I'm only really interested in the opinions people form, based on their practical listening experience, not what they've learned from reading technical papers, as anyone can do that, and thus turn the discussion of audio into a form of scientific study.

    *That* [last bit] is fundamentally NOT what AoS is about, and indeed flies completely in the face of our ethos!

    AoS is primarily about members sharing their personal experiences of using hi-fi stuff, whatever it may be, and relating their *subjective* findings to others, in the hope that it will be of some benefit, so that they can *learn from each other*, not from books or technical studies, and subsequently use what is learned that way to improve their systems and enjoyment of music.

    That is why this forum exists and has a predominantly subjectivist, 'ears first' ethos, and in turn is why the results of people's listening experiences will ultimately always be what matters most.

    In that respect, as far as you're concerned, I care about what YOU think, based on what YOU have heard, and the conclusions YOU have reached on that basis, not what you've read about, and more importantly, I trust *your* ears, not the ears/hearing acuity of those whose input has been used to compile a CES paper.

    In that respect, I guarantee that if you were to try a clock upgrade for yourself, and report your experiences here, whether positive or negative, people would sit up and take notice, as they'd be much more interested in your findings there, than you spouting technicalities, which neither you nor most here fully understand.

    So why not give it a go?

    Marco.
    Okay repeating myself again but what can I do. I have not said that the clock upgrades did not offer a subjective improvement.


    If I get the clock upgraded on one of my players and I decide it sounds better, how do I know simply from listening that is due to reduced jitter and not some other factor?


    Anyone can answer not just Marco. I would really like to know.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  7. #197
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: Down South

    Posts: 2,413
    I'm Neal.

    Default

    Martin, ask yourself what other factors an upgraded clock could possibly offer...and ask yourself what all these clock upgrades are advertised as offering, like Ticord and Tent etc.
    Listening in a Foo free Zone...

    Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

  8. #198
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    The discussion, Martin, isn't just about jitter. It's about digital audio in general, and some supposed "facts and realities" in relation to that, which *in reality* aren't facts [certainly indisputable ones], but more people's views on the subject, based on their personal experiences, which is why the latter is so important

    None of us here can prove beyond question whether clock upgrades to digital equipment reduces jitter, but the feeling is that if you've had direct experience of carrying out such an upgrade on your own equipment, then you'll both have a better idea of the sonic effect and subsequent subjective impact on jitter, than you would from simply from having read about it in a technical paper or otherwise.

    As I've said, ultimately what matters most on AoS are people's subjective experiences and opinions, not what's written in technical papers

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  9. #199
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,774
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NRG View Post
    Martin, ask yourself what other factors an upgraded clock could possibly offer...and ask yourself what all these clock upgrades are advertised as offering, like Ticord and Tent etc.
    I posted a picture of a clock mod earlier. Who is to say that simply swapping the resistors and capacitors for a different brand (aside from any changes to the circuit itself) could not be reducing noise of some other kind? Or enhancing leading edges a little more, or some other pleasing effect on the sound completely unrelated to jitter?

    What the manufactures say that they do is neither here nor there. They can claim anything they like especially if no-one ever asks for any proof of the claims.


    But enough - I think the AES paper is enough evidence to make this question important, you, for some reason, don't. I'll leave it there. It's been an interesting discussion anyway.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  10. #200
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: Down South

    Posts: 2,413
    I'm Neal.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I posted a picture of a clock mod earlier. Who is to say that simply swapping the resistors and capacitors for a different brand (aside from any changes to the circuit itself) could not be reducing noise of some other kind? Or enhancing leading edges a little more, or some other pleasing effect on the sound completely unrelated to jitter?

    What the manufactures say that they do is neither here nor there. They can claim anything they like especially if no-one ever asks for any proof of the claims.


    But enough - I think the AES paper is enough evidence to make this question important, you, for some reason, don't. I'll leave it there. It's been an interesting discussion anyway.
    I don’t because I as others, have found audible benefits from reclocking and implementing improved clock upgrades. The dogma you’ve shown and absolute closed mind ‘fact’ statements you’ve made based on theory supposedly supported by a 20year old AES paper hold no water when put to the practical test of trying it for yourself. Have you considered that the basis of the paper may actually be wrong? Reality trumps theory in every case.

    Do you know Guido Tent? He worked for Philips on consumer electronics back in the ‘90s, an extremely talented engineer in audio electronics and DACs in particular. You may do well to read his web site and try one of his clocks, I had the very fortunate opportunity to talk to him many years ago and if he as a designer says this works like this and will improve the sound of your CD player by reducing jitter then you would be stupid not to take notice. That was when he was still at Philips.

    As to your first paragraph, you are obviously not technically minded as Marco answered that neatly in an earlier post. As you say enough I can’t be arsed anymore with your entrenched view.
    Listening in a Foo free Zone...

    Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 20 of 28 FirstFirst ... 101819202122 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •