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Thread: Experiences re-tipping with alternative cantilever and/or stylus?

  1. #11
    Join Date: Jan 2016

    Location: Shenfield

    Posts: 521
    I'm Slav.

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    This would be interesting but can you do some "technical" comparison like measured frequency response , set it so azimuth (cross-talk ) as well as SRA is similar , can you at least check measured resonance frequency of both ?
    Are you going to set tracking to same value , I'd think optimal tracking value is a combination of few factors and one of them is a stylus profile/contact area ?

  2. #12
    Join Date: Jun 2018

    Location: Mildenhall, Suffolk

    Posts: 323
    I'm John.

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    To Mac72,

    As the comparisons will take place in Dagenham, I feel confident, I could request that you could be another party at the comparisons.
    Then you can draw your own conclusions and ask for your own criteria to be met if available.
    My trust is an a engineer who is said to have been influential through his contribution to design, in producing Ortofon MC Cartridges.
    I have taken the above info at face value, as it was supplied by individuals who I trust, and I have not sought any means to prove or disprove its creditability.
    My ears at present and my reactions to the performance on offer are my gauge of quality for my rebuilt K'b.

  3. #13
    Join Date: Jan 2016

    Location: Shenfield

    Posts: 521
    I'm Slav.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnG View Post
    To Mac72,

    As the comparisons will take place in Dagenham, I feel confident, I could request that you could be another party at the comparisons.
    Then you can draw your own conclusions and ask for your own criteria to be met if available.
    My trust is an a engineer who is said to have been influential through his contribution to design, in producing Ortofon MC Cartridges.
    I have taken the above info at face value, as it was supplied by individuals who I trust, and I have not sought any means to prove or disprove its creditability.
    My ears at present and my reactions to the performance on offer are my gauge of quality for my rebuilt K'b.
    Hi John
    I'm not trying to be critical of rebuild just sceptical , I like your approach and it makes perfect sense to check against original version. It would be great if you could include me in the meeting , can you PM me more info regarding date/time , I hope I would be able to make it .
    Unfortunately my dr.Feickert Pro-version is on loan along with a copy of TRS-1007 but I still have standard Adjust+ installed on the old laptop and I could bring it with me .
    I'd need to check what's the condition of the test record or maybe buy ClearAudio version of TRS1007, anyone knows where from ? it seems MCRU don't sell it anymore .
    Standard drFeickert record is not bad but f.response test has to be split into 2 as 35-20kHz track is inaccurate below 10kHz , standard version of Adjust+ don't offer an option to separate cartridge f. response so its going to be the combined cartridge/phono stage response , still should give a bit of insight what's happening.
    Does your tonearm have azimuth adjustment , we could at least get crosstalk right , probably not enough time for phase matching .

  4. #14
    Join Date: Mar 2019

    Location: Windsor, Ontario, canada

    Posts: 24
    I'm Bruce.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mac72 View Post
    Just out of curiosity , I am on the sceptical side when comes to buying 2nd hand cartridges as well as re-tipping done outside of manufactures , any of you have compared original cartridge in it's prime with re-tipped one?
    Some guys seems to be singing paeans in the glory of... and say about how many steps ahead re-tip was in sq but have you been provided with frequency response graph. , tracking ability , channel separation figures , advised about tracking force as Ortofon for example does?
    How do you know azimuth or SRA hasn't changed and what you perceive is just an reproduction inaccuracy?
    Another point to make is why would any of "fresh" re-tippers complain , it would be like cutting off the branch you're sitting on and minimizing re-sale value to ZERO .
    Interesting observation , look on E-Bay and audio forums how many re-tipped carts people sell claiming ZERO hours , my understanding is they tried it and didn't like , but it just me .
    Let the discussion begin....
    It really would be interesting to be able to do a direct, immediate comparison between a specific cart and its re-tipped/modified counterpart. I've only managed to do this once, with the Benz Gold - not an expensive cart by any means. In that case it was a matter of replacing a broken cantilever original aluminium/elliptical with a boron/microridge. Not only had I fairly extensive experience with the cart before hand, but I also had an unaltered one to compare to. The original arrangement was clearly holding back the motor in every parameter. Nothing clinical about my assessment, but the result has proven gratifying. In the end I see it as a means of producing good-sounding carts to enjoy at very reasonable cost from otherwise useless raw materials. Perhaps at some point I will run into one that doesn't work out, but it hasn't happened so far.

  5. #15
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: London, Canada

    Posts: 184
    I'm Blake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddlefye View Post

    How did you like the boron/microridge vs. the sapphire on the MC 20 Super? Speaking of Adrian - I lent him my MC-20 Super and it will undoubtedly need re-tipping when I get it back. I liked the boron/microridge combination on the Benz Gold - talk about elevating a cart above its station!

    I would give the edge in my system and with my ears to the boron on MC20 Super vs. the sapphire. Differences were not huge but I thought the boron was a little more natural sounding and not quite as forward. As I said earlier, almost like the difference between sitting mid hall and front row.

    I ended up selling the Sapphire on but keeping the boron as a spare (as neither are in use now). But I can also see how someone else might prefer the sapphire depending on their listening preferences.

  6. #16
    Join Date: Jul 2010

    Location: Cheltenham

    Posts: 883
    I'm Charlie.

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    Just had some cartridges returned from Expert Stylus. I asked Wyndham to do the following:

    Sapphire cantilever and Paratrace tip on 2 x Denon cartridges - a 103C1 and a standard 103
    Paratrace retip to a vintage 60s Ortofon SL15Ell

    These arrived back today. I have mounted the 103C1 into my second system - Technics 1200, Lentek integrated, Wilmslow HSM (Home studio monitors - ex-Ovlov of this parish). Wow! How much better is this than a standard 103. Same bass drive and flow, but with much faster and refined mids and top end - better vocals, real shimmer to cymbals. Sounds much more dynamic too. Definitely worth the money - current price 330 for the sapphire paratrace mod.
    R2R: Studer A820 1/2 inch 2 track; Otari MTR-12 1/4 inch 2 track; Sony APR 5003; Sony APR 5002; Studer A807/II. Vinyl: Platine Verdier Allaerts MC1B/Schroeder Reference & Model 2 Decca C4E/Hadcock 228 TRON Seven Reference phono. Keith Monks MkII RCM Other analogue source: Nakamichi Dragon with ANT4066 mods. Amplification: TRON Meteor preamp TRON Voyager 20B SET power. Speakers: Avantgarde Duo. Digital: does not compute

  7. #17
    Join Date: Jun 2010

    Location: Bucharest

    Posts: 976
    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by topoxforddoc View Post
    Just had some cartridges returned from Expert Stylus. I asked Wyndham to do the following:

    Sapphire cantilever and Paratrace tip on 2 x Denon cartridges - a 103C1 and a standard 103
    Paratrace retip to a vintage 60s Ortofon SL15Ell

    These arrived back today. I have mounted the 103C1 into my second system - Technics 1200, Lentek integrated, Wilmslow HSM (Home studio monitors - ex-Ovlov of this parish). Wow! How much better is this than a standard 103. Same bass drive and flow, but with much faster and refined mids and top end - better vocals, real shimmer to cymbals. Sounds much more dynamic too. Definitely worth the money - current price 330 for the sapphire paratrace mod.
    He's done super work for me.
    Main system: Sony TTS8000; SME IV; Audio Technica Art1; Denon PMA-850; SBT; Technics sh-x1000 DAC; Beovox MS150.2
    System 2 - SBT; Kinshaw Perception DAC; Lentek and Klark Teknik Jade 1 studio monitors

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