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Thread: 2M Black Upgrade

  1. #61
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 6,772
    I'm James.

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    Now put about 50 hours on the 2M Black FGS and it has opened up significantly, not that it wasn't bad before but now the sound stage is huge with everything placed in the soundstage sounding wonderfully natural with beautiful acoustic space. Very nice uplift in transparency. This is as good an analogue sound as I have ever heard with lovely tactile nuances and superb tonal qualities to instruments.

    I really believe this stylus has taken the 2M into another league and it has elevated a rather good MM cartridge to a level that for me makes me feel pursuing a really good MC is not really worth the time, expense or effort although I am sure Robbie may disagree a little there!
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

    Second System : Goldring Lenco GL75 / AT95EX / Pioneer SX590 / Spendor SP2

  2. #62
    Join Date: May 2011

    Location: Glasgow

    Posts: 7,718
    I'm Brian.

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    Nice one James . You took a risk and it paid off
    Regards
    Brian

    Sell your cleverness and buy bewilderment . (Rumi )


    Korus Computer Audio music server
    JustBoom DAC . HRT Musicstreamer 2
    Amplifier : Sony TA FB740R
    Speakers : Tannoy 637
    Interconnects : MS Audio / Klotz MC5000 .
    Speaker cables : Western Electric 16AG

  3. #63
    Join Date: Apr 2011

    Location: London

    Posts: 4,419
    I'm Robert.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Now put about 50 hours on the 2M Black FGS and it has opened up significantly, not that it wasn't bad before but now the sound stage is huge with everything placed in the soundstage sounding wonderfully natural with beautiful acoustic space. Very nice uplift in transparency. This is as good an analogue sound as I have ever heard with lovely tactile nuances and superb tonal qualities to instruments.

    I really believe this stylus has taken the 2M into another league and it has elevated a rather good MM cartridge to a level that for me makes me feel pursuing a really good MC is not really worth the time, expense or effort although I am sure Robbie may disagree a little there!
    In all honesty Jim I know exactly where you're coming from.

    You'll remember how much I banged on about the 2MB when I had mine, that cart opened my eyes to how good analogue can get like no other cart had. I rate it very highly.

    Further testimony was that when I moved to my first mc, Ortofons Quintet Black I wasn't like ' this is wiping the floor' with the 2MB and that showed me again what a quality cart the 2MB is.

    Same again when I went up again to the Cadenza Black, not a case of 'peeing' all over the 2MB.

    Of course you get a bit more refinement and textural info but I'd expect that at least considering the cost, especially the Cadenza.

    Now the 'big leap' in terms of everything is with the FGS on the Cadenza - absolutely, so I can only imagine what the FGS has done to the 2MB, hence I can appreciate what you're saying
    Last edited by RobbieGong; 10-03-2019 at 09:43.
    My System:
    Amplification - Sansui AU-alpha 707 DR
    Turntable - Technics SP10 MK2-Technics EPA-250 Tonearm-Yannis Tome 423.5Plus tonearm cable-Eichmann KLEI Absolute Harmony plugs.
    Ortofon Cadenza Black moving coil cartridge-Fritz Gyger S re-tip. Panzerholz plinth.

    CDP - Pioneer PD-91
    Speakers - Spendor D7 on Soundcare SuperSpikes
    QED Silver Spiral speaker cable-airloc banana plugs
    Mains - Ultra Pure silver plated un-switched socket-Missing link EPS 500 silver plated plugs-Hi-Fi Tuning gold plated silver ceramic 13 amp fuses

  4. #64
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 6,772
    I'm James.

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    I ought to send it down to you for a listen
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

    Second System : Goldring Lenco GL75 / AT95EX / Pioneer SX590 / Spendor SP2

  5. #65
    Join Date: Apr 2011

    Location: London

    Posts: 4,419
    I'm Robert.

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    You mean you'd trust me with it after my 'finger lift slip n suspension tension wire stretch' incident ?

    She arrived back from Kilian yesterday after repair by the way, but I've not had a moment to get to setting the Cadenza Black FGS up again.

    Started a new job last week and weekends always full so heaven knows when I'll next get the chance to set it up properly

    If I'm ever up Birmingham way I'll let you know and samely if you're ever down London town one Saturday and give me enough advance, you can have a listen too and if I can keep the thing in the all important sweetspot too.

    I owe Andy (smangus) a listen / visit at some point too
    My System:
    Amplification - Sansui AU-alpha 707 DR
    Turntable - Technics SP10 MK2-Technics EPA-250 Tonearm-Yannis Tome 423.5Plus tonearm cable-Eichmann KLEI Absolute Harmony plugs.
    Ortofon Cadenza Black moving coil cartridge-Fritz Gyger S re-tip. Panzerholz plinth.

    CDP - Pioneer PD-91
    Speakers - Spendor D7 on Soundcare SuperSpikes
    QED Silver Spiral speaker cable-airloc banana plugs
    Mains - Ultra Pure silver plated un-switched socket-Missing link EPS 500 silver plated plugs-Hi-Fi Tuning gold plated silver ceramic 13 amp fuses

  6. #66
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 6,772
    I'm James.

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    Ah yes I forgot it might not be safe. I do have another 2M black which will go for the same treatment once the stylus wears out. I may well send you my current one when the stylus is a bit nearer the end of its life!

    Again I was listening to it a lot over the weekend whilst also evaluating and trying to optimise a digital set up. Interesting swapping between the two! Digital sounds really good until you put some vinyl on. The magical illusion vinyl creates especially with a stylus as good as the FGS is wonderful. The texture and tone of instruments is very apparent and real. You don't have to try hard to listen, everything is laid out in front of you with a natural ease and ambience. I am still amazed at the acoustic environment either natural or artificially produced that is revealed by this cartridge.

    Compared to the standard 2M there is so much more going on with subtle but important nuances in the recording that were not apparent in the standard cartridge. I now hear where voices have been double tracked and indeed I can hear clearly the separation between voices which were previously either blurred together or just not audible.

    There is also a weight and power to this cartridge now that makes the standard 2M sound a bit lean. The standard 2M also sounds a bit spot lit on some material where as the FGS gives you a more wholesome account of the recording.

    I am enjoying this upgrade more than I though I would and it has taken me several weeks of listening to get my head around just what it has now bought to my system and listening experience. It has been one of the biggest upgrades I have noticed in my system and well worth every penny.
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

    Second System : Goldring Lenco GL75 / AT95EX / Pioneer SX590 / Spendor SP2

  7. #67
    Join Date: Apr 2011

    Location: London

    Posts: 4,419
    I'm Robert.

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    In nutshell, your findings mirror mine Jim.

    The FGS does not leave anything behind so you get what I call the 'real recording' and that means everything / the information that you'd expect a recording to contain or hold in terms of the recorded instruments, vocals, recording levels and recording quality.

    This is something that I've found even very nice sounding carts / stylus's havnt done in the way the FGS does and there's good reason for that.

    As I've said before, this is largely due to it's profile which is 1. Cut to closely match the cutting lathe tip, 2. It is not only long and thin (therefore getting deep down in the groove, it has a very large contact area as well (allowing it to extract a shed load of information / the recorded music from the groove walls.

    Thats why as a transducer it is amazing, accurate, pure and true.

    Things you never knew where there are revealed. A one note you may find is actually a double note, the way phrases end are not always as you thought, single vocals turn out to have a subtle second vocal sometimes, that you'd never heard before.

    Personally, It's this way or no way for me from now on, it's just too good and right to go 'back'.

    Once this one wears I'll go the same route again until, my teeth fall out and my hearing fails
    My System:
    Amplification - Sansui AU-alpha 707 DR
    Turntable - Technics SP10 MK2-Technics EPA-250 Tonearm-Yannis Tome 423.5Plus tonearm cable-Eichmann KLEI Absolute Harmony plugs.
    Ortofon Cadenza Black moving coil cartridge-Fritz Gyger S re-tip. Panzerholz plinth.

    CDP - Pioneer PD-91
    Speakers - Spendor D7 on Soundcare SuperSpikes
    QED Silver Spiral speaker cable-airloc banana plugs
    Mains - Ultra Pure silver plated un-switched socket-Missing link EPS 500 silver plated plugs-Hi-Fi Tuning gold plated silver ceramic 13 amp fuses

  8. #68
    Join Date: Aug 2016

    Location: Manchester

    Posts: 122
    I'm Nick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brian2957 View Post
    Excellent mate . You took a punt and it paid off

    Do you know if he does this kind of work on lesser cartridges , or is it only the Black and above ?
    Well after having a brief but informative email chat with Kilian from Holistic Audio, my old Ortofon 530 mkii is currently winging it's
    way to him to have the damper assembly upgraded the body mechanically tuned for lower resonance signature and re-tipped with a
    Fritz Gyger stylus. Not the FG-S that Jimbo has had on his 2M black but a FG-1V apparently, He did say that he can upgrade all the Ortofon 500
    series but the 530 mkii is in his words "where it gets interesting" .

    So once again thanks for the steer chaps, i'm looking forward to hearing how this compares to the shure m55e/jico sas combo
    on my Phonomac AT1010 mk6( Absolutely jaw dropping tonearm, thanks again Angus)

    Nick.
    Last edited by Nickfna; 15-03-2019 at 11:29.

  9. #69
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: Canaries

    Posts: 193

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    Last year I remember asking Mr. Bakker about fitting an FGS to my Troika and he said I should stick to the Ogura Vital tip although he did mention a 5-times polished special edition Vital tip which offered certain advantages (less fluff build-up, quieter tracing ). Does this mean that with the FG tips we are not talking about a global panacea but rather something that suits Ortofons in particular ?
    Last edited by Chris; 15-03-2019 at 12:10.

  10. #70
    Join Date: Apr 2011

    Location: London

    Posts: 4,419
    I'm Robert.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Last year I remember asking Mr. Bakker about fitting an FGS to my Troika and he said I should stick to the Ogura Vital tip although he did mention a 5-times polished special edition Vital tip which offered certain advantages (less fluff build-up, quieter tracing ). Does this mean that with the FG tips we are not talking about a global panacea but rather something that suits Ortofons in particular ?
    Dont know to be honest Chris,

    He certainly knows his stuf and I do get the impression that he knows what will work, or is right in terms of application.

    In that regard then I very much doubt that his approach, knowledge, skills and advice / recommendation will be limited or restricted to the FGS for everyone and everything
    My System:
    Amplification - Sansui AU-alpha 707 DR
    Turntable - Technics SP10 MK2-Technics EPA-250 Tonearm-Yannis Tome 423.5Plus tonearm cable-Eichmann KLEI Absolute Harmony plugs.
    Ortofon Cadenza Black moving coil cartridge-Fritz Gyger S re-tip. Panzerholz plinth.

    CDP - Pioneer PD-91
    Speakers - Spendor D7 on Soundcare SuperSpikes
    QED Silver Spiral speaker cable-airloc banana plugs
    Mains - Ultra Pure silver plated un-switched socket-Missing link EPS 500 silver plated plugs-Hi-Fi Tuning gold plated silver ceramic 13 amp fuses

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