Bullshitting

[Bigman80]

That was another dig, despite advice against turning things personal. Best give it a rest!

[Spectral Morn]

Apologies for the thread diversion into a petty argument.

No more attacking individual members. Stay on topic.

[willbewill]

It's a fact!

Nobody sells anything because they still want it.

Not so my friend, I have on numerous occasions sold items that I would rather keep as the result of needing cash urgently.

When we downsized house I also sold the hifi that I loved as it did not fit in with the new location.

Also many folks like to try different things, for some that is a major part of the hobby.

[Bigman80]

Not so my friend, I have on numerous occasions sold items that I would rather keep as the result of needing cash urgently.

When we downsized house I also sold the hifi that I loved as it did not fit in with the new location.

Also many folks like to try different things, for some that is a major part of the hobby.

Ah, yes. I accept that and did that myself previously when my brakes needed replacing.

You are right to point that out.

[Marco]

As for Richard's opening post, well he's entitled to tell it as he sees it, which is precisely what this section of the forum is for [we value ALL constructive feedback from members] - although it's a pity folks seem to forget that Critics Corner exists, and just lump discussions such as this (which has nothing to do with hi-fi) into Blank Canvas.

That aside, I sympathise with Richard's views, simply because if you step outside of your own 'immediate world', as in what your mates and you are up to with hi-fi, at any given time, especially if there's a significant following of other members doing the same, then it's very easy to construe unbridled enthusiasm towards something new that we think is great (which after all is human nature), and a subsequent desire to excitedly tell the whole world about it, as being something more sinister, such as shilling.

Therefore, if you're not into the latest 'whatever' it is being shouted about/discussed with some enthusiasm on forums, that innocent enthusiasm may come across rather differently than it would if you were right into it/directly involved in it, or indeed a happy user of whatever it is. So as ever in life, sometimes you need to step outside of your 'immediate world', to see yourself as you really are, or indeed your behaviour as it's often seen by 'outsiders'...

That said, and I'm in full agreement here with Jeff, unless there is obvious [and factually provable] evidence of underhand behaviour/shilling, which we would deal with instantly, by applying a lifetime ban to those who were guilty, we simply allow folks to 'apply their own filter' - that is if you think that someone's talking bullshit, then challenge them accordingly or simply ignore them.

It's not up to us (admin or mods) to nominate someone as a 'bullshitter', as what universally acceptable criteria would you use to judge such? And if you think there's genuinely something underhand going on, and have *credible evidence* of such, then the correct course of action is to inform either myself or one of the mods, and we'll deal with it.

However, we will not stifle or 'gag' someone's natural (and entirely innocent) enthusiasm or keenness to recommend a particular product, for fear of it being seen as 'shilling'. Some folk have shilling on the brain, simply because they have an agenda of their own, and indeed are often the biggest serial 'shillers' of all! They're just very careful and rather sly with how they go about it.

As is often said, and this applies to the mania in some quarters about shills: 'It takes one to know one'

Marco.

[Cyrus]

No more attacking individual members. Stay on topic.

Some people can't help themselves - not aimed at any one person BTW.
The bacon sandwich example shows exactly what I'm talking about - no-one has been to the tea shop in question, no-one knows if Tom Kerridge has either, or if he has even commented. But once the name of someone revered in the field is mentioned, people start to open their wallets. What if Tom and I were friends and therefore shills for Mrs Miggins? She might not even know or participate in the practice but it's happening all the less.

[Marco]

He missed the point - purposely in my opinion Marco.

Doesn't matter. There's no excuse for personal attacks. You can make your point perfectly well without resorting to name calling.

Indeed, the next person to do so, or turn things personal [I don't care *who*] will be out for a week, without any further warning.

Marco.

[ianlenco]

I don't have a problem with folk being enthusiastic about a certain product. It might tempt me to do some more research to see if it would suit my needs but I know in the end if I make a purchase it is on my head if I don't share the enthusiasm - same as if I purchased based on "professional" hifi review recommendations.
What does irritate me a little (OK maybe a lot in some cases) is when people express negative opinions on products/technologies they've never heard. A common one is that full range drivers like my Jordan Eikonas can't do bass or can't do treble. Another is that all Class D amps are cold and sterile or words to that effect. There are lots of other examples of this across fora, AoS is no better or worse than other places.

[Cyrus]

Doesn't matter. There's no excuse for personal attacks. You can make your point perfectly well without resorting to name calling.

Indeed, the next person to do so, or turn things personal [I don't care *who*] will be out for a week.

Marco.

I cannot see how it was personal - I suggested he was missing the point and likened the missed point to an object. However, I appreciate your stance - noted.

[Cyrus]

I don't have a problem with folk being enthusiastic about a certain product. It might tempt me to do some more research to see if it would suit my needs but I know in the end if I make a purchase it is on my head if I don't share the enthusiasm - same as if I purchased based on "professional" hifi review recommendations.
What does irritate me a little (OK maybe a lot in some cases) is when people express negative opinions on products/technologies they've never heard. A common one is that full range drivers like my Jordan Eikonas can't do bass or can't do treble. Another is that all Class D amps are cold and sterile or words to that effect. There are lots of other examples of this across fora, AoS is no better or worse than other places.

My original point was, as you say, hifi fora in general are the problem. Agree that none are any better than worse than any other.