Bullshitting

[Marco]

I cannot see how it was personal - I suggested he was missing the point and likened the missed point to an object. However, I appreciate your stance - noted.

Joe, you need to learn when to back off and give it a rest, as you appear to be one of these folk who always insists on having the last word!

You don't refer to someone as an "unserviceable dart". End of. That's derogatory, and completely unnecessary. I don't care how you seek to justify it. *I'm* the arbiter here of what's acceptable behaviour or not. So no more backchat, or you'll be out for a week.

Marco.

[Joe]

I base my own morality of four principles which have become a deeply embedded obsession with me; honesty, sincerity, integrity and authenticity. If people comply with these they have to be good people; these restrict behaviour from being immoral.

As Sam Goldwyn said: 'The most important thing is sincerity. If you can fake that, you got it made'.

[Bigman80]

Some people can't help themselves - not aimed at any one person BTW.
The bacon sandwich example shows exactly what I'm talking about - no-one has been to the tea shop in question, no-one knows if Tom Kerridge has either, or if he has even commented. But once the name of someone revered in the field is mentioned, people start to open their wallets. What if Tom and I were friends and therefore shills for Mrs Miggins? She might not even know or participate in the practice but it's happening all the less.

There's two ways to look at this example:

A) You are name dropping a famous celebrity to bring custom to a little known tea shop. You may be affiliated or operating alone or you may be in cahoots with the owner.

Or

B) You have been to the tea shop, after talking with your good friend Tom, and decided it was so good that you simply HAVE to shout it from the rooftops.

I would have absolutely no way of knowing which is the case. So what do I do when I read your statement about the cafe?

I either subscribe to the theory that the review can't be trusted because you're obviously a shill for the tearoom. I have absolutely no evidence to support this theory but there's little information on it and you seem overly excited about it. You live close to it and could possibly be on a share scheme that gave you an incentive to promote it.

Or

I read it, trust that you are genuinely impressed and think that it's somewhere that sounds interesting. This theory is highly likely and makes more sense. I have no reason to doubt that you went there. I plan to go there, try the tea room and makeup my my own mind and report back.

Which option you choose entirely depends on your mentality. The choice of A or B is made in accordance with your feelings towards the individual. If I thought you were a dishonest, bad person I'd pick A, if I thought you were genuine, I'd pick B.

What I'd never do, is go to the tea room EXPECTING it to be the best in the world. Id make up my own mind. If it was, I'd let everyone know I thought it was.

If it wasn't, I'd know that you and I have a different opinion of what makes a good bacon sandwich and understand that on the subject of tea rooms, it's unlikely that I'd follow your recommendation again.

Whilst this is a metaphorical scenario, the process is the same for HIFI.

[bumpy]

I suspect most peoples verdict on the SQ of a system is based on the price point they are working at.

Someone with a £1000 system may find an amplifier that they describe as "the best I have ever heard", and it may well be. But someone with a £10000 system (for instance) may have improved significantly on that amp many years ago.

I am not suggesting that money is the only criteria involved but it does help to put comments in context.

[Cyrus]

There's two ways to look at this example:

A) You are name dropping a famous celebrity to bring custom to a little known tea shop. You may be affiliated or operating alone or you may be in cahoots with the owner.

Or

B) You have been to the tea shop, after talking with your good friend Tom, and decided it was so good that you simply HAVE to shout it from the rooftops.

I would have absolutely no way of knowing which is the case. So what do I do when I read your statement about the cafe?

I either subscribe to the theory that the review can't be trusted because you're obviously a shill for the tearoom. I have absolutely no evidence to support this theory but there's little information on it and you seem overly excited about it. You live close to it and could possibly be on a share scheme that gave you an incentive to promote it.

Or

I read it, trust that you are genuinely impressed and think that it's somewhere that sounds interesting. This theory is highly likely and makes more sense. I have no reason to doubt that you went there. I plan to go there, try the tea room and makeup my my own mind and report back.

Which option you choose entirely depends on your mentality.

What I'd never do, is go to the tea room EXPECTING it to be the best in the world. Id make up my own mind. If it was, I'd let everyone know I thought it was.

If it wasn't, I'd know that you and I have a different opinion of what makes a good bacon sandwich and understand that on the subject of tea rooms, it's unlikely that I'd follow your recommendation again.

Whilst this is a metaphorical scenario, the process is the same for HIFI.

Famous name = well respected and long standing member on a forum. It happens - you know it and I know it.

Another example - if you are driving home in the evening and the police pull you over and breath test you do you a) kick off and just protest too much or
b) willingly blow into the meter, knowing you haven't had a beers since last Saturday

because in this thread you are doing a) at the moment. If there's nothing to hide, why bother? No-one else is....

[Bigman80]

Famous name = well respected and long standing member on a forum. It happens - you know it and I know it.

Another example - if you are driving home in the evening and the police pull you over and breath test you do you a) kick off and just protest too much or
b) willingly blow into the meter, knowing you haven't had a beers since last Saturday

because in this thread you are doing a) at the moment. If there's nothing to hide, why bother? No-one else is....

Oh, so now I'm a shill for challenging the subject and lack of examples being provided?

[walpurgis]

Thread suspended. Marco may have something to say!

[Marco]

Ok, no more veiled (or not so veiled) accusations of shilling from anyone, unless you have conclusive proof of such, in which case contact me via PM. Otherwise, there should be no further discussion of that matter, and anyone I consider has been guilty of such will be out for a week, with no further warning.

Joe (Cyrus), if you've joined this forum, largely to be an irritant and 'poke' folk (or views) you dislike [which evidence so far appears to suggest], then you won't be here long. Examining your contributions to date reveals that the vast majority have been posts on 'controversial' threads, such as this and the Grounding Box one, not to mention the 'little disagreement' we had recently over car headlight bulbs.

Now this matter isn't up for debate, so don't bother replying trying to justify yourself, as I'm firm on my opinion of you here so far.

I suggest that if you want to change my opinion, and have desires to be here in future, and PROVE that I'm wrong about you, that you start some threads of your own, talking about your interests in hi-fi, music, or any other permitted subjects, instead of simply what at the moment is coming across as carefully-considered trolling, and stay away from 'controversial' threads for a while, or action will be taken to prevent you from carrying out what seems like an agenda.

Marco.

[Bigman80]

Through strong and consistant recommendations/review from people on here , not all linked, I have a couple of pieces of kit from 1 manufacturer in particular. I have a Firebottle Phono stage and mono blocks. They have increased my musical pleasure no end and I would never have heard of or considered them if it was not for people on the forum posting reviews etc.

I made my own choices when investing my money and have not regretted it at all. Am i a victim of over promoted gear , no i don't think so. As long as reviews etc are posted honestly and we recognise that than that is all that matters.

The more options we are made aware of the better, ar the end of the day nobody on here can force you to spend tour money, it's your choice and if something gives good vfm then why not talk about it?

Given my experience I would recommend those bits of kit to anybody , whether they take that up or not is down to them.

Never met Alan only exchanged pms very occasionally, so I put myself in a satisfied customer bracket not shilling mate bracket .

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Missed this earlier Andy,

I know I led you to the Firebottle gear and I'm glad you like what have. If you'd bought it and it didn't live up to my words, I'm sure you'd have sold it and told me so.

I recommended a cartridge to a guy here. An AT33PTG. When I met him in person, he told me it was shit. I was mortified. He then upgraded a few bits judiciously and suddenly his AT33PTG was superb. He'll confirm this tale, if he wishes.

The problem wasn't the recommended cartridge, it was the surrounding kit. Once he'd invested, the cartridge came to life. This was an important lessons to me. You can recommend something that works great in your system but it may not work at all in someone else's.

I'd be uneasy thinking that someone would buy or investigate a piece of kit that didn't do what I said it did. Now, I'm more selective about what I recommend. I also only write down EXACTLY what I think. Good or bad.

[Jazid]

Not trying to inflame but just to reconcile two opposing viewpoints:

People sell for a variety of reasons, the only unequivocal motivation is a wish to transform the item into money since that is what they get in return. They might have got better stuff, have moved on, think they are selling crap and talking it up, be in a fix and need cash, be selling stuff they have inherited or have no interest in, so many reasons. Caveat emptor, and salesmanship does not necessarily imply dishonesty.

Luckily I have bought from more decent sellers than bad ones over the years, on here, the Wam, even eBay.

Edit: Tapatalk left me adrift of the intervening 15 or so posts, my point has been made already, apologies.

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