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Thread: Bigblog - The Revolving Door of HiFi Auditioning

  1. #901
    Join Date: Nov 2015

    Location: Wolverhampton

    Posts: 10,157
    I'm Oliver.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Why not - you make both kinds don't you?
    Lol, I do. I was just kidding.

  2. #902
    Join Date: Nov 2015

    Location: Wolverhampton

    Posts: 10,157
    I'm Oliver.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. C View Post
    Just to show how odd things can get, for example in my own personal system the speakers final resting point is the right speaker 312mm further forward than the left, yet they utterly disappear and they are far greater in stature than the Scala's, but that is because EACH room is very different and has acoustic challenges as well as electrical and vibrational ones imho

    As far as spikes on speakers go, that would be the last place I would be looking to go, THINK of how the vibrational energy is transmitted / dissipated through the DUT (Device under test) in this case the speaker!

    You can obtain a basic accelerometer app for your phone, just see what is being reflected back up into the speaker when using spikes.

    Long story short, when myself a couple of other dealers went on a Focal factory trip a few years ago (this we also to see our pair of Grand Ultopia III's being built) we were treated to a listen in Focals main demo suite. Full DCS stack, Shunyata cabling and Halcrow amps.

    Myself and another dealer just looked at each other and were thoroughly underwhelmed, the then Be tweeter designer Dom baker (now Audiolab) stated 'We make the best speakers in the world, its up to you make them sound good!' Anyway we engaged in a heated argument over the use of spikes, he was adamant they were the way I was not lol!

    Anyway six months later Dom dropped in on ourselves and ended up staying quite a while, he was very intrigued but our use of NO spikes lol.

    Now we employ the use of several professional accelerometer's including a tri-axial device for specialist applications
    So do you have anything under your speakers at all?

  3. #903
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Gerrards Cross

    Posts: 2,472
    I'm Tony.

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    Hi Oli

    I have several methods of decoupling dependent on the size / weight / room situation and overall foot print of the speakers, in my case the speakers I use are pretty close to 3/4 of a meter deep and just about 0.6m wide so the natural weight balance of the speaker need to be taken into account as well. Also tweeter height is very critical especially with Focal's they can 'beam' badly if you are not ultra critical with correct set up.

    My suggestion would be a isolation device for the speaker to floor, then a decoupling device between the speaker and the isolation device for maximum performance extraction.

    With the smaller demonstration system at the moment, the speakers are mounted on Track Audio precision 600 stands, then the speakers themselves are decoupled from the stands via Black Ravioli pads. Before Napoleon jumps on his high horse, they are other products out there which can achieve similar results that are sold by other vendors.

    Does it work?, for the last 18 years I have personally never used spikes in any of my systems, I would also say around 80% of our customers have the same feelings, so will not due to domestic bliss (or the lack of!). Proof, taking aside the actual 'you hearing benefits' you can use even a basic app to actually confirm the reduction in the vibrational quotient. This is not snake oil its basic physics. Even high end laboratories use vibration control, devices in the measurement suits particularly under electron microscopes.


    Lab standard vibration control

    These are exceptionally good for other applications as well, however the price may make you wince a little, though anything to do with test and measurement, Aerospace, military or medical areas cost wise is simple 'Think of number, double it and add two (2) noughts!)

    They way I would liken sorting out a great part of your personal sound is like this, when you purchase a quality pair of speakers this is just the start. EG you would not fit 185/60/14 tires to a Ferrari 512 BB boxer, run it on pump piss and use Castrol GTX so why impede your sound systems performance by restricting your performance potential with spikes?

    Everything that is connected to your system, everything it sits on, the electricity it uses, cables that connect it and the space it occupies have a large bearing on how it sounds imho.
    Coherent Systems
    Real high end sound with musicality not hifi

  4. #904
    Join Date: Nov 2015

    Location: Wolverhampton

    Posts: 10,157
    I'm Oliver.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. C View Post
    Hi Oli

    I have several methods of decoupling dependent on the size / weight / room situation and overall foot print of the speakers, in my case the speakers I use are pretty close to 3/4 of a meter deep and just about 0.6m wide so the natural weight balance of the speaker need to be taken into account as well. Also tweeter height is very critical especially with Focal's they can 'beam' badly if you are not ultra critical with correct set up.

    My suggestion would be a isolation device for the speaker to floor, then a decoupling device between the speaker and the isolation device for maximum performance extraction.

    With the smaller demonstration system at the moment, the speakers are mounted on Track Audio precision 600 stands, then the speakers themselves are decoupled from the stands via Black Ravioli pads. Before Napoleon jumps on his high horse, they are other products out there which can achieve similar results that are sold by other vendors.

    Does it work?, for the last 18 years I have personally never used spikes in any of my systems, I would also say around 80% of our customers have the same feelings, so will not due to domestic bliss (or the lack of!). Proof, taking aside the actual 'you hearing benefits' you can use even a basic app to actually confirm the reduction in the vibrational quotient. This is not snake oil its basic physics. Even high end laboratories use vibration control, devices in the measurement suits particularly under electron microscopes.


    Lab standard vibration control

    These are exceptionally good for other applications as well, however the price may make you wince a little, though anything to do with test and measurement, Aerospace, military or medical areas cost wise is simple 'Think of number, double it and add two (2) noughts!)

    They way I would liken sorting out a great part of your personal sound is like this, when you purchase a quality pair of speakers this is just the start. EG you would not fit 185/60/14 tires to a Ferrari 512 BB boxer, run it on pump piss and use Castrol GTX so why impede your sound systems performance by restricting your performance potential with spikes?

    Everything that is connected to your system, everything it sits on, the electricity it uses, cables that connect it and the space it occupies have a large bearing on how it sounds imho.
    I don't disagree with what you've said

    Trouble is, I'm personally at a point where the things I want to try are now very expensive and I think I need to tread very carefully with where I spend the highly diminished budget, thanks to a leaking garage roof and the removal of a fireplace

    I am going to look at maximising the performance of my own speakers at some point and will take your advice on.

  5. #905
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Gerrards Cross

    Posts: 2,472
    I'm Tony.

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    Hi Oli
    Understand 100%

    Though put this equation in the grey matter, taking cables aside, speaker performance is dictated by room / speaker interface, surrounding objects, its coupling (or lack of) to the supporting surface, amplifier/speaker impedance

    So in fairness speakers only equate to around 50% of REAL performance ability of their potential, there are couple of exceptions with speakers due to their inherent design.

    Once your operation is over happy to show you what/how and why effects the outcome of speaker performance
    Coherent Systems
    Real high end sound with musicality not hifi

  6. #906
    Join Date: Nov 2015

    Location: Wolverhampton

    Posts: 10,157
    I'm Oliver.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. C View Post
    Hi Oli
    Understand 100%

    Though put this equation in the grey matter, taking cables aside, speaker performance is dictated by room / speaker interface, surrounding objects, its coupling (or lack of) to the supporting surface, amplifier/speaker impedance

    So in fairness speakers only equate to around 50% of REAL performance ability of their potential, there are couple of exceptions with speakers due to their inherent design.

    Once your operation is over happy to show you what/how and why effects the outcome of speaker performance
    Yes, I know the room interaction is where most of the speakers ability is either won or lost, but its a blind spot for ma as I have never delved into the area.

    I have some tasty speakers so I would like to optimise them so I will be very grateful of a demo of what to look for.

    Get Christmas out of the way, and see when my operation is and I'll make a concerted effort to visit you.

  7. #907
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Gerrards Cross

    Posts: 2,472
    I'm Tony.

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    Hi Oli

    No problem plus you have family, mine have flown the nest so not so manic a Xmas.

    Understand the operation issue, having spent 3 years in hospital due to a piss-head time is required to heal and get back to some form of normality.

    With some careful handling your gent with the Scala's could bring his system up to a very respectable level just take the time to thoroughly work through all of the items we have talked about.
    Coherent Systems
    Real high end sound with musicality not hifi

  8. #908
    Join Date: Nov 2015

    Location: Wolverhampton

    Posts: 10,157
    I'm Oliver.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. C View Post
    Hi Oli

    No problem plus you have family, mine have flown the nest so not so manic a Xmas.

    Understand the operation issue, having spent 3 years in hospital due to a piss-head time is required to heal and get back to some form of normality.

    With some careful handling your gent with the Scala's could bring his system up to a very respectable level just take the time to thoroughly work through all of the items we have talked about.
    Cheers, Tony.

    We will definitely sort a visit out.

  9. #909
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 8,017
    I'm AnDreW.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. C View Post
    Any idea of costings?
    SS

    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DAC Caiman SEG+15V PSU+Dorado DECK 1210 Mat SPH SSS Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe/Ebony PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE

    PRE
    Croft Epoch(Modified) AMP Sondex S100 (Modified) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Reference XO DECKS Garrard301/401 (Bastin) Mat Teunto Bearings 401/SPH Plinth Moldovan/Bastin Arms 3009/3012(Ikeda Ag wired) SME V 12 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister v2 / Royall N SPU's CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ Speaker 10mm Cu + WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostage Paradise(4 Box Modded) / EAR 834 Clone (modded)

    REAL SOUND


    PRE Radford SC25 (Mullard ECC83/82) POWER RADFORD STA25 Renaissance (Electroharmonix EL34) SPEAKERS Celestion Ditton 15 (Duelund Rewired/Jantzen Recapped) CABLES Speaker - Duelund AWG 12IC - Belden 8402+Switchcraft RCA



  10. #910
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 21,690
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by REXTON View Post
    Any idea of costings?
    Isn't it a bit of 'overkill'? Though one under a TT might be worth considering.
    Barry

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