Grounding boxes - The real deal

[Gaz]

People like to try to tune up their systems same as they might tune up their cars, seeing if they can get a few extra horsepower. It's part of the hobby. Don't see what the problem is with that.

The big difference is that a car can be put on a dyno, or its performance accurately measured to prove that the tune up or modification has worked.

Most of the hifi foo is akin to a car being dyno'd and showing no difference in power or torque but the owner insisting it feels faster followed by saying the dyno must be faulty because his wife thinks it feels faster too.

[Macca]

Most of the hifi foo is akin to a car being dyno'd and showing no difference in power or torque but the owner insisting it feels faster followed by saying the dyno must be faulty because his wife thinks it feels faster too.

That sort of thing actually does happen though.

[Marco]

Cool, it works in his system. Now take it to your system and try again.

+1. That's the key with devices like this, as how well they might work in a particular system will down to many different factors. However, glad that Edward had a good day out at Tony's, and it'll be interesting to see what he thinks of the same item when he tries it at home

Marco.

[Gaz]

That sort of thing actually does happen though.

Indeed it does, a classic case being drilled airboxes, they make a nice sporty induction roar so the driver thinks the car is faster, in reality it's sucking hot air in from the engine bay so is actually reducing performance in most cases, this doesn't stop the owner insisting his/her car is now faster.

[AJSki2fly]

The big difference is that a car can be put on a dyno, or its performance accurately measured to prove that the tune up or modification has worked.

Most of the hifi foo is akin to a car being dyno'd and showing no difference in power or torque but the owner insisting it feels faster followed by saying the dyno must be faulty because his wife thinks it feels faster too.

I think it actually is possible to measure changes, being for the better or worse. REW is free sound measurement software that will run on PC or MAC, and with a reasonable USB microphone it can quite accurately measure the output from a system. By taking a systematic approach and taking a series of sound analysis measurements it is then possible to make changes to the system or listening room and then repeat the measurements and compare the results with the originals.

The changes could be small or large, ie. swap speakers, put anti vibration feet under turntable, move soft furnishings etc. The key is to make one change at a time and re-measure, to see if the desired improvement happens. Obviously how it sounds is also of major importance, there is no point in it looking perfect on paper but not sounding how you like.

I and my friend have used the above to check the difference in speakers when upgrading and then tweaking their position to get the best out of them. This has lead to some interesting and occasionally unexpected results. However our ears agreed with what we found.

[alphaGT]

Yes, just to be clear, I haven't used one of these grounding boxes, so there are no testimonials here from me. No idea how it was perceived differently

Marco.

My mistake, I must have been reading someone else’s testimony?

Russell

[Edward]

I think it actually is possible to measure changes, being for the better or worse. REW is free sound measurement software that will run on PC or MAC, and with a reasonable USB microphone it can quite accurately measure the output from a system. By taking a systematic approach and taking a series of sound analysis measurements it is then possible to make changes to the system or listening room and then repeat the measurements and compare the results with the originals.

The changes could be small or large, ie. swap speakers, put anti vibration feet under turntable, move soft furnishings etc. The key is to make one change at a time and re-measure, to see if the desired improvement happens. Obviously how it sounds is also of major importance, there is no point in it looking perfect on paper but not sounding how you like.

I and my friend have used the above to check the difference in speakers when upgrading and then tweaking their position to get the best out of them. This has lead to some interesting and occasionally unexpected results. However our ears agreed with what we found.

+1

Adam (Westlower) and I have been playing around with REW and a miniDSP usb mic and certainly found some interesting results after applying a convolution filter. For me a noticeable improvement in response (smoother, more open) and hence more enjoyable. Next step is to do what you have been doing - incrementally change things and see the response.

[AJSki2fly]

+1

Adam (Westlower) and I have been playing around with REW and a miniDSP usb mic and certainly found some interesting results. For me a noticeable improvement in response (smoother, more open) and hence more enjoyable. Next step is to do what you have been doing - incrementally change things and see the response.

Yes Edward, it is IMO the most sensible way to try and get some real measurements to assess changes. I used to work in Wolfson Sound and Vibration lab many years ago and it taught me to measure stuff and then listen make a change re-measure, listen again and then change again and repeat until the improvement wanted was found.

What I found very interesting is that sometimes what seem insignificant changes, like just moving a chair a few feet can have a big impact on the low end frequencies. I also used this method to find the best position for speakers and listening area, (in fact two places), when changing speakers these also changed subtly. Some would find it tedious to do but it do give good results IMO.

[Marco]

Just to respond to this:

To go off topic for a moment....I spent a few hours off grid yesterday. I unplugged as many smps wall warts and devices with smps inbuilt as I could, turned off the WiFi, all phones and tablets / PC’s etc. I initially thought there was an improvement but later on as I started to plug stuff back in I had to be honest and note the sound was much the same as before.

If there was an improvement it must be very subtle to none existent as it eluded me. I can only draw the conclusion that my system seems to be immune from any major effects of smps and RFI...which is quite comforting as its one less thing to be concerned about. One positive is I’ve removed a number of unused wall wart PSUs and computers that I no longer require, going on the principle that even if I can’t detect an improvement less is more!

Interesting, Neal, and thanks for trying that

In my experience though with these things, the best way to assess if there's any difference or not, is to live with it one way, for at least a week (so no wi-fi, or any of that other SMPS pish you've got plugged in), spending that time listening to a selection of tracks you know well, and which you will use to make the comparison later when you switch the wi-fi back on, and plug everything back in...

Then *at that point*, once the switch has been made, listen to the same music again and see whether you can detect a difference. Of course, I know it would unfortunately be completely impractical to do!

Marco.

P.S Dennis, I haven't forgotten about you. I shall comment on that excellent post of yours later.

[alphaGT]

I may not know how it works, but a few things that I don’t think it does. If it were actually routing extra RF into the ground plain, then a regular FM antenna attached to the same point should work even better! And I’m guessing it doesn’t.

And whatever is in that box, it isn’t ground. Not unless it’s as big as a planet. It merely attaches to ground, you can’t cut the ground pin off your power cord and remain safe.

And I’m no engineer, but there should be some way to measure if any electrons are moving in that ground cable to the box, while attached to a regular stereo, just as one would normally use it, if an electron moves in that wire, it should be measurable. And if no electrons are moving in that wire, then we have a huge problem.

The writeup from CAD says the rocks are quartz crystals that dissipate high frequencies into heat. Ok, I can get my head around that. But wouldn’t it be even better if you used quartz crystal components that have electronic leads made onto them? Like seen on clocks and radio transmitters.

The question is not does it work, the question is can it work for less than £800? The fact that it’s a single ended device attached to signal ground points toward simplicity. But that’s one thing about technology, one day you’re on top of the world and everyone wants your product! Until something better comes along, and you can’t give your stuff away. If these devices really work, how long before the mystery is solved, and preamp makers incorporate the technology into their preamps, so there is no more need for a Ground Box? Or, are there preamps in the world that already negate the need for it? I’m guessing that the effect will vary from preamp to preamp? If not, then does that mean that all preamps are fundamentally flawed? So many questions!

Russell