Grounding boxes - The real deal

[Marco]

No-one with a vested interest will want to say though. Trusting your ears only means you are also trusting your ability not to be duped by soundbites and 'reviews', and a small improvement could easily be put down to that.

Absolutely, but surely anyone with a "vested interest", i.e. the manufacturer concerned or dealer selling the product, *if* they're confident in its efficacy, should be open and honest about how it works and welcome scrutiny from prospective buyers?

Quite simply, this device is either designed around genuine engineering/scientific principles that work, or on placebo - and if it's the former (which is my feeling) then it doesn't help when how it's been designed to function is cloaked in mystery.

Marco.

[Macca]

Quite simply, this device is either designed around genuine engineering/scientific principles that work, or on placebo - and if it's the former (which is my feeling) then it doesn't help when how it's been designed to work is cloaked in mystery.

Marco.

I don't think so. In fact I recall Entreq saying theirs was designed purely by trial and error. If there was any engineering research behind it we'd have some manufacturer measurements showing before and after noise levels. And we don't. After all showing some measurements of how effective it is at doing what it is claimed to do would not give away the 'secret recipe' so there would be no harm in doing it. They don't do it because they don't have any.


I don't think the effect is imaginary either btw.

[Joe]

The get-out clause for manufacturers is 'trade secrets'; ie if they explain how it works in too much detail, other manufacturers will quickly rush out knock-off versions and undercut them on price. I've often seen this trotted out in, for example, reviews of fancy/expensive cables.

Being a clueless n00b when it comes to technical stuff, I doubt I'd get very far trying to understand a detailed 'how it works' explanation, anyway. I certainly wouldn't be able to challenge any claims on science or engineering grounds (no pun intended).

[Joe]

I don't think so. In fact I recall Entreq saying theirs was designed purely by trial and error. If there was any engineering research behind it we'd have some manufacturer measurements showing before and after noise levels. And we don't. After all showing some measurements of how effective it is at doing what it is claimed to do would not give away the 'secret recipe' so there would be no harm in doing it. They don't do it because they don't have any.

There was a 'white paper' on the Entreq site but though it's still referred to elsewhere on the site, it seems to have vanished.

[Beobloke]

Quite simply, this device is either designed around genuine engineering/scientific principles that work....

Trust me, Marco - it isn’t!

[Marco]

I don't think so. In fact I recall Entreq saying theirs was designed purely by trial and error. If there was any engineering research behind it we'd have some manufacturer measurements showing before and after noise levels.

I'm talking about basic engineering or electrical principles. If this product's function is founded upon neither, then how can it genuinely work? And if it doesn't genuinely work, then quite simply it's snake oil. That's why more transparency is needed, in terms of how it's been designed and what it attempts to address.

You can only measure something, if you know *exactly* what to measure, and moreover, you can only show the subsequent measurements if what you've measured actually works!

The fact is, no-one's asking what the components are, which combine to produce this 'grounding box', or how to make one and copy it; merely its basic design principles and how it's intended to function. Therefore, that information should be more than forthcoming from the manufacturer concerned and/or the dealer(s) selling them (I'm not just talking about Tony's product here), in CLEAR and SIMPLE terms.

Otherwise the obvious question is: what is there to hide?

Marco.

[Marco]

Trust me, Marco - it isn’t!

Well then, the jury's out. I'm not sufficiently interested in one of these boxes, especially at the price quoted, to try and find out how it works, if it can't be explained in clear and simple terms by those with a 'vested interest', as I'm not someone prone to throwing my money at something unless there's a damn good reason for doing so!

Even for a diehard subjectivist like me, 'come and have a listen to one' is not enough, as it doesn't get me passed the first hurdle of 'what is it actually designed to do?' Everything in my system *must* have a clearly defined and established purpose.

And why hasn't a loan sample of the product been offered, which interested parties could assess, prior to a potential purchase? Surely, in the long run, that would generate more sales, especially if the testimonials were good?

Marco.

[jandl100]

... then it doesn't help when how it's been designed to function is cloaked in mystery.

Marco.

Well, that's the basis of the patent system - the desire to protect your design from competitors who could take advantage of your insight, time and effort.

[Cyrus]

Absolutely, but surely anyone with a "vested interest", i.e. the manufacturer concerned or dealer selling the product, *if* they're confident in its efficacy, should be open and honest about how it works and welcome scrutiny from prospective buyers?

Quite simply, this device is either designed around genuine engineering/scientific principles that work, or on placebo - and if it's the former (which is my feeling) then it doesn't help when how it's been designed to function is cloaked in mystery.

Marco.

Issue being that when the science is revealed (if it even exists) then the true cost of making one of these up will be revealed. This is when the cloak of tomfoolery will be removed and the cashflow will end.
That's why no-one is forthcoming with the details. This game is all too common in the hifi lark, shamefully.

[Stratmangler]

Until I heard Alan and Marco say they have heard a difference

Marco hasn't said so - I've been following this thread quite closely, purely because of the comedy potential.

From the testimonies of Alan and Marco

See my comment above.