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Thread: Grounding boxes - The real deal

  1. #321
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrus View Post
    Well, the claim is that the box removes RFI. We know now that RFI is across the spectrum so you can't measure all of it but if you can inject RFI into the environment in some band that is measurable, then you can measure it - or the lack of it after use of the grounding box.
    Sorry, I'm afraid that's only your supposition, based on assumption, not fact. The key is in the word "claim".

    You need to be *certain* how the product works, and that you're measuring for the right thing (i.e. the phenomenon you're attempting to prove exists, or the opposite), otherwise you can't use those measurements as proof of that, or of the efficacy of the device in question.

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

    BE HAPPY EVERYDAY!

  2. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Sorry, I'm afraid that's only your supposition, based on assumption, not fact. You need to be *certain* that you're measuring for the right thing (i.e. the phenomenon you're attempting to prove exists, or the opposite), otherwise you can't use those measurements as proof of that.

    Marco.
    No that's the claim. The noise is removed from the music by removal of the RFI. If you can measure it going in you can measure it being removed.
    There is no supposition as to what the claim is - its creator(s) aren't saying 'it makes the music nicer'.

  3. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrus View Post
    No that's the claim. The noise is removed from the music by removal of the RFI. If you can measure it going in you can measure it being removed.
    There is no supposition as to what the claim is - its creator(s) aren't saying 'it makes the music nicer'.
    Where does the manufacturer specifically say that - could you link to it please? I must've missed it.

    Even so, it doesn't necessarily mean that's what this device is *actually* doing [after all, it's only their CLAIM] - and if you don't know exactly what it's doing, or adding/removing, (as evidenced by the previous discussion between two of our resident EEs, AnthonyTD and Firebottle), then how can you successfully measure for it?

    Measure away, for the effects RFI, but that might not necessarily tell you what you need to know!

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

    BE HAPPY EVERYDAY!

  4. #324
    Join Date: Dec 2018

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    I'm julian.

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    Hi Marco,
    I think i understand where you're coming from, but i don't necessarily agree. We all like to understand how something works, i used to race motorcycles and tuned my own engines - gave me a lot of mechanical sympathy, and i was able to hear and feel what the engine was doing, change gear at the top of the torque curve etc etc. Didn't help me win races - too fat !
    I've never been interested in spending money for money's sake, or keeping up with the Jones's, but i have been through 3 amplifiers in the last twelve months. Each time i auditioned them at the sellers house, took my 'old' amplifier and a bunch of very familiar cd's with me, then A/B'd them until i had made a decision, and i auditioned more than i bought.
    Each one was an upgrade, and i wasn't concerned that single ended should have sounded better than push-pull, or 6L6 sounded better than 845...
    I've never heard a grounding box, but having read quite a lot about them think that i've got a handle on how they 'might' work. That's good enough for me, but i don't have the spare coin to invest right now, so going to look at optimising my system, and balanced mains........Cue can of worms..
    PS Audio Directstream DAC, modified Dennon DVD player.
    1980's Aloia 6L6 prototype, Definative Audio modded Rogue 88 Magmum 6550. CI Audio passive pre.
    Wilmslow Audio modified Chario Academy Millenium II's, Zingalis, Podium 0.5's, Frankenstein DIY's
    Ripnas etc

  5. #325
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    Hey, Julian, whatever works for you works. I wouldn't attempt to dispute your experiences, mate, so enjoy. I just do things a little differently

    Quote Originally Posted by joolz View Post
    i used to race motorcycles and tuned my own engines - gave me a lot of mechanical sympathy, and i was able to hear and feel what the engine was doing, change gear at the top of the torque curve etc etc. Didn't help me win races - too fat !
    Haha- that was bloody funny!

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

    BE HAPPY EVERYDAY!

  6. #326
    Join Date: Oct 2012

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    I'm Alan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    You need to be *certain* how the product works, and that you're measuring for the right thing (i.e. the phenomenon you're attempting to prove exists, or the opposite), otherwise you can't use those measurements as proof of that, or of the efficacy of the device in question.
    Marco you seem to be needing to have measurements to give credence to these boxes working, or at least something from the manufacturers to confirm they work. Do you need to know how your amplifier works to enjoy it?

    What's wrong with going back to ears, or at least the testimony of others?

    I can understand most people are not going to fork out just to try these.

  7. #327
    Join Date: Mar 2018

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    I'm Joe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Where does the manufacturer specifically say that - could you link to it please? I must've missed it.

    Even so, it doesn't necessarily mean that's what this device is *actually* doing [after all, it's only their CLAIM] - and if you don't know exactly what it's doing, or adding/removing, (as evidenced by the previous discussion between two of our resident EEs, AnthonyTD and Firebottle), then how can you successfully measure for it?

    Measure away, for the effects RFI, but that might not necessarily tell you what you need to know!

    Marco.
    Our solution to this problem is the Coherent Systems RTZ (Return To Zero) passive grounding system which simply converts any unwanted (and undesired) high frequency energy to heat which can be dissipated through the case. The RTZ connects in to each of your audio devices, therefore it does not change/limit or effect the equipment it is attached to other than greatly lower the high frequency noises in the device.

  8. #328
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    So that's the definitive solution, eh... Ok, where do I sign?

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

    BE HAPPY EVERYDAY!

  9. #329
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebottle View Post
    Marco you seem to be needing to have measurements to give credence to these boxes working, or at least something from the manufacturers to confirm they work. Do you need to know how your amplifier works to enjoy it?

    What's wrong with going back to ears, or at least the testimony of others?
    Nothing whatsoever, Alan. That's not what I'm saying, so I'm surprised you've reached that conclusion, especially when you know how much of an 'ears first' person I am!

    There's nothing wrong with drilling down into the details though, and applying some objectivity. I'm not disputing any testimonies. You hear what you hear

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

    BE HAPPY EVERYDAY!

  10. #330
    Join Date: Oct 2012

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    I'm Alan.

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    No conclusion reached, that's why I said 'seem to be needing', just checking

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