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Thread: Grounding boxes - The real deal

  1. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clive View Post
    It's about sensing it. 45kHz when it's a harmonic of a note we can hear may well be perceived in some way....I don't know for sure but I'm not ruling it out.
    "Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
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  2. #462
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clive View Post
    It's about sensing it. Can you define how you perceive 8Hz? I don't find it because my trousers are flapping. I may well be sensing pressure changes but that's only my supposition. 45kHz when it's a harmonic of a note we can hear may well be perceived in some way....I don't know for sure but I'm not ruling it out.
    Not much in the Audio literature but quite a lot about ultrasonic perception in humans in the medical one.
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  3. #463
    Join Date: Nov 2011

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. C View Post
    Martin

    My credibility is just fine thank you.

    I suspect you did not read the post clearly, what I said was 'perceived' not heard extra harmonic structures in reproduced music.
    A great many speakers have bandwidth going way beyond 22Khz and more:- Focal (40Khz), Magico (50Khz), Sonus Faber (35Khz) YG (40Khz +), Quadral (65Khz),Verity audio (60Khz) Tad (100Khz) Rock-port technologies (35Khz), Audio Nec (45Khz), Wilson audio (35Khz) etc.

    Those guys that use super-tweeters do not just 'perceive' extended upper frequencies, they also gain improved bottom end depth and details coupled with a more smoother and open mid ban presence. Even the beloved Tannoy's have they own version which has a 62Khz bandwidth going up to a 'Usable 100Khz' So is that a sales gimmick on their behalf?

    Product information"

    With regard to microphones, yes they are many very highly respected 20Khz phone's agree 100%, we actually use one of those mentioned in of the studio's, however we also use Sanken and Earthworks models which have 40Khz and 100khz bandwidths. Depending on what you are recording, female vocals, classical ensemble, folk, Rock or metal, each genre requires a different approach.

    Interestingly we have one of these new mike designs on order, has been creating a lot of buzz in the pro industry for its superb handing of the whole soundscape.

    Ehrlund EHR-M


    Good to see lively debate again!
    I think you need to read this https://courses.lumenlearning.com/bo...ity-and-level/

    I worked in a sound and vibration lab and we would test for all sorts of sound emitting objects, including ships horns, loudspeakers, objects in industrial environments causing hi levels of noise and high frequency (ultrasound), low levels of vibration on building sites(infrasound) and so on. We also had a very rigorous environment and tests for humans. Human beings are physically unable to hear/perceive anything beyond 22khz max (and actually anything much above 18khz is a rarity). So unless you are morphing into a bat forget it.
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    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound


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  4. #464
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJSki2fly View Post
    I think you need to read this https://courses.lumenlearning.com/bo...ity-and-level/

    I worked in a sound and vibration lab and we would test for all sorts of sound emitting objects, including ships horns, loudspeakers, objects in industrial environments causing hi levels of noise and high frequency (ultrasound), low levels of vibration on building sites(infrasound) and so on. We also had a very rigorous environment and tests for humans. Human beings are physically unable to hear/perceive anything beyond 22khz max (and actually anything much above 18khz is a rarity). So unless you are morphing into a bat forget it.
    My daughter is an audiologist. Apparently bone conduction happens up to 50khz. And this can bypass the middle ear and hit the inner ear. So although you cannot hear frequencies above 20khz (limited by the middle ear) via air conduction, it is conceivable that the brain perceives, though not through ‘hearing’, frequencies above 20khz. This would perhaps help to explain why super tweeters make a difference to the sound?

  5. #465
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckworp View Post
    My daughter is an audiologist. Apparently bone conduction happens up to 50khz. And this can bypass the middle ear and hit the inner ear. So although you cannot hear frequencies above 20khz (limited by the middle ear) via air conduction, it is conceivable that the brain perceives, though not through ‘hearing’, frequencies above 20khz. This would perhaps help to explain why super tweeters make a difference to the sound?
    If that is so then wouldn't the SPL of the high frequencies have to be pretty high for it to penetrate any soft tissue in its path? Have they done tests to show this?
    [FONT="Arial"]
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound


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  6. #466
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    My speakers go right down to zero hertz. In fact they are delivering 0Hz right at this minute.
    "when common sense, logic and plausibility are excluded. All that remain are foolishness and lies"

  7. #467
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    My speakers go right down to zero hertz. In fact they are delivering 0Hz right at this minute.
    Your brain goes down to zero hertz, not sure about your woofers.
    Martin



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  8. #468
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    This is good stuff gents keep it coming

    Now someone mentioned infrasonic, which are sound waves below 20Hz, these have a seriously long wave length to fully form (20hz is pretty close on 18m not sure many of us have rooms that long ), you would 'feel' these as opposed to hearing them.

    A few years ago now I was have a tour around Cabasse's facility in Brittany, particularly the anechoic chamber by Bernard De Bail (sure that was his name!) their chief designer the we were discussing sample rates and frequency response of a project they were working at the point in time.
    Anyway the upshot was he demonstrated a 16hz waveform in there, that caused your chest to behave in a very strange manner shall we say, the SPL on your body was pretty intense and boy you were really feeling it. NOT hearing it


    May be of interest.


    Further reading


    A drop more

    Real world instrument frequency measurements
    Coherent Systems
    Real high end sound with musicality not hifi

  9. #469
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    I don't see what all the 'we actually hear like bats...maybe -' has to do with the grounding boxes anyway. Not discussing it anymore. I'm waiting for the THD+N measurements. Not that it proves anything either way but it is still interesting and relevant.
    Martin



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    'You fool! To think that your ape-brain could contain the full knowledge of the Krell!'

  10. #470
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    You miss the point, it's not hearing like bats, it's perceiving. It's really not the same thing. This perception probably adds to the overall experience.

    Grounding boxes may free up clutter to allow this perception to take place. Or gounding boxes may be a device of Satan....hard to know.
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